Konn

So, I already posted this in another thread but seeing as it concerns the discussion going on here, and the Q&A hasn't been mentioned before in this thread, that I have seen, I choose to repost it here Ooh, interesting question. For my part, though, I don't interpret this as suggesting that Shallan will end up with neither Kaladin nor Adolin. I would rather say that of those two potential relationships (though I am not saying it necessarily has to be one of those two), Shalladin already has a lot of conflicts to go through (see the 'who will Shallan end the series with' discussion), suggesting that developing that relationship could fit in with how Mr. S likes to write relationships, and hence make it more likely. With Adolin, I would say that the conflicts in the relationship are less apparent. I think that him killing Sadeas and perhaps him becoming jealous and feeling redundant with all the KR's around might improve the chances for Shadolin because it might bring some interesting conflicts into the relationship, even though there is a risk that he may get 'clingy', which I don't think would improve his chances with Shallan given her Daddy issues. The only other issue that could be an interesting point of conflict with Shadolin which I felt was feasible after WoR was the love-triangle with Kaladin, but if Mr. S don't particularly favor those kind of relationship conflicts I don't think that there is all that much interesting with Shadolin in terms of conflicts in the relationship. However, looking at the quote, which is described as having been worded carefully, the word traditional stands out (to me), so, perhaps Mr. S has plans to write an untraditional love triangle? Try on Shadoladin for size? Edit: Shadoladin was a joke. Edit 2: Having so much fun with Shadoladin, I forgot to make my final point that I think this answer from Mr. S is increasing the odds of Shalladin happening.

Ooh, interesting question. For my part, though, I don't interpret this as suggesting that Shallan will end up with neither Kaladin nor Adolin. I would rather say that of those two potential relationships (though I am not saying it necessarily has to be one of those two), Shalladin already has a lot of conflicts to go through (see the 'who will Shallan end the series with' discussion), suggesting that developing that relationship could fit in with how Mr. S likes to write relationships, and hence make it more likely. With Adolin, I would say that the conflicts in the relationship are less apparent. I think that him killing Sadeas and perhaps him becoming jealous and feeling redundant with all the KR's around might improve the chances for Shadolin because it might bring some interesting conflicts into the relationship, even though there is a risk that he may get 'clingy', which I don't think would improve his chances with Shallan given her Daddy issues. The only other issue that could be an interesting point of conflict with Shadolin which I felt was feasible after WoR was the love-triangle with Kaladin, but if Mr. S don't particularly favor those kind of relationship conflicts I don't think that there is all that much interesting with Shadolin in terms of conflicts in the relationship. However, looking at the quote, which is described as having been worded carefully, the word traditional stands out (to me), so, perhaps Mr. S has plans to write an untraditional love triangle? Try on Shadoladin for size? Edit: Shadoladin was a joke. Edit 2: Having so much fun with Shadoladin, I forgot to make my final point that I think this answer from Mr. S is increasing the odds of Shalladin happening.

As I understood the shape/tilt of the area and/or the direction of the storms meant that all the wreckage gathers in particular areas, that was why Kaladin and the bridge men were set to search the chasms, because the water brought the bodies etc. close to the Alethi war camps. Even if the two storms might have changed that pattern, it probably wouldn't be an impossible search given that the currents in the chasm could be expected to bring the bodies from the fight in roughly the same area. I think it is quite a different thing to carve a hiding place and hide in it before the storm/flood than to fall 200ish feet into a wild current many feet high. Yes, but does immune to the storms mean immune to water currents and drowning? That being said, I hope and kinda expect her to have survived somehow (based on the importance of her character in the story), I am just having problems imagining how she might have managed to do it

I realize that they wouldn't start searching immediately, but, we did see some of the aftermath, settling into the tower and such, so I would assume that it would be natural to start searching for the shard plate and sword as soon as possible during that time. I am not expecting the fall to have been fatal, but given the heavy rains during the fight I am more uncertain as to how she would be able to swim the chasms during the flash floods in her shard plate. I guess she could have gotten new powers somehow, but barring that I have trouble seeing her survive that night. Also, if she got some improved powers, wouldn't that also meant all the other storm form parshendi would have gotten the same powers? I can't recall anything for the fighting scene to suggest that, but, maybe it might have happened after the humans got out?

So, I haven't found this question discussed anywhere on the site. Last we heard from Eshonai she was pushed down a chasm by Adolin at the final confrontation with the Parshendi in the WoR. Here is the extract from the book: "His shove threw her over the plateau's edge. He felt Eshonai's panic, heard her shout, as she was dropped into the open blackness" (pp. 1011). Given the storms raging/ building, at the time, we can expect that the chasms wasn't and wouldn't be very hospitable place to be for the coming hours, and given that Shardplates behave like other armor in water, it probably won't be particularly useful in saving her life. So, going on that I am assuming she is dead. But, I have three small questions that make me ask whether she might somehow be alive after all. 1. We know that Esonai, based on postings from other people here, that she will have the flashbacks in book 4 (I think), and while Mr. S has said that (also based on postings from other people here) that the person didn't need to be alive to have flashbacks, might this be a factor making it more likely that she survived? 2. And, related, there has been some suggestions on the forum that the the 10 flashback persons are related to the 10 orders of KR, although Mr. S apparently has considered giving someone two flashback books, e.g. Kaladin, which would suggest that there is no relationship between the 10 books and the 10 orders of KR. However, if there indeed is a link between them, that would mean that Eshonai somehow has to be become a KR, which would require her to still be alive (okay, this wasn't really a question at all). 3. In the ending of the WoR, there is no mention, as far as I can remember, of Eshonai, or speculations of what has happened to her. Given the value of shard plates/swords, said to be worth more than a kingdom, isn't it strange that people weren't running to the chasms to find and claim them? Or, do you guys reckon that this is all being taken care of in the background with Mr. S not wanting to use space in the ending of the book for such trivial matters? So, basically, what I am saying is that she is not mentioned after falling down the chasm, combined with the fact that she has a flashback chapter, and that I am uncertain about how useful a shard plate and sword might be for falling into and getting out of/ surviving in a chasm during a storm while in stormform. What do you guys think, is it pure nonsense from my part, or might she still be alive, somehow?

Sadly, for Kaladin, I agree with these guys that going home won't mean any happy-happy family reunion for Kaladin… I think that the trauma of losing Tien (and are they also believing that Kaladin is dead? I can't remember him having contacted his family after becoming a slave…) and a continued conflict with the city lord will have had devastating effects on his family. My personal guess is that at least one of his parents are dead, possibly both, and the other has left or is broken in some way. One scenario I can imagine happening is that his dad is dead and her mum has returned to her parents. Though a sad scenario, I think it might be interesting with regard to the continued character development for Kaladin, unless Mr. S decides that he has suffered enough and wants to give him a break and start healing some of his emotional wounds, instead of making new ones. With regard to Laral, which I guess this thread is actually about, I agree that I think she will have a role to play in Kaladin's storyline. I can also see the interaction between Laral and Kaladin being used as a way to develop Shalladin. My personal guess is that Laral will want to pick up/ start a relationship with Kaladin, he will be a trade-up from Roshone both in looks, personality and social standing, and that Kaladin might initially tempted/flattered about this, especially if he is grieving about what happened to his parents, and him remembering his childhood crush (after all, we always remember the past more positively than it really was). This temptation will, however, pass, let's face it, she was a bit of a bitch to him, and he will move on, perhaps leaving her expecting more. If Mr. S is going to use Laral to develop Kaladin in any substantial way, such as Shalladin, I think it will require her meeting some of the other protagonists, namely Shallan, for example through Kaladin bringing her back to HQ to keep her safe. I can also see, however, her playing a smaller role in the storyline with limiting her interactions with Kaladin to his home town, where the issues between them helps him progress as a person and maybe get through some of the issues of his childhood.

Wasn't Laral a lighteyes? But, it is at least the first light eyes woman (assuming Tarah wasn't a light eyes) since Kaladin and his family being screwed over by light eyes, which I assume made him despise light eyes to begin with...

"You Insult! (…) I will tell all who are to listen! When arriving, I will say, 'Kholin is a stealer of boots and taker of women's virtue!'"

I agree that based on what we know about these characters it seems likely that it might be an argument agains Shalladin, BUT, based on what happened in WoR, it seems that 1) Overprotectiveness is a problematic issue between Adolin and Shallan even though they didn't go through any life-threathening situations together (of course, as pointed out before, Shallan not fitting with Adolin is not an argument in favor of her fitting with Kaladin), and 2), overprotectiveness is not a problematic issue in the interaction between Shallan and Kaladin, even while being in life-threathening and demanding situations. Of course, it might be that it will change if the relationship between Shallan and Kaladin grows more intense and Kaladin feels a stronger need to protect her. Also, I would like to add that there are actually in my mind some strong parallels between Shallan and Kaladin with regard to being protective. Both have spent much time protecting their family, Shallan protecting her family against her father, debt-collectors etc., and Kaladin protecting Tien and his proxy family after becoming a soldier and bridge man. This becomes obvious, amongst other things, in the chasm-scene when talking about being broken: ""The crushing guilt," she said, "of being powerless. Of wishing they'd hurt you instead of those around you" (pp. 849). I am not saying that this will necessarily make their relationship more or less likely to happen, but I think it is an interesting parallel, that I hasn't seen been commented upon in this thread.

LOL, way to go to stop spamming @Aleksiel

So, I know I am in for a long wait, but after finishing WoR and loving it, I just have to know: Does anyone have any information about how the work-schedule of Mr. S looks for next few years, and when can we expect the next book in the Stormlight Archives?

I see your point, and agree in some respects, but I guess that from my reading there are already some substantial feelings there that I think will mature into sufficient feelings to deal with those issues. And also, for me, from a writers perspective (or what I assume to be a writers perspective as I am not one myself), looking at the storyline of said characters, I really feel that all the foreshadowing and the sequences spent on developing this relationship, with its romantic undertone, as well as all the future character personality contrasts that you point to, would be wasted if there isn't a romantic relationship between the two. And, even if you could argue that this could also be exploited in a non-romantic relationship, or a broken relationship, it seems to me that the best and most likely scenario would be that Mr. S continues the Shalladin romantic tract and let them work out the various issues to keep the relationship compelling. Well, at least, that is my perspective, but of course, others will have different readings, and they may very well be right.

Concerning the Helaran issue with regard to Shallan, I see someone suggesting that it be put off until Kaladin and Shallan hooks up, in order to create problems then. However, I am a little sceptical to this idea because I think that 1) wouldn’t Shallan, given that she is with Kaladin check this out with him immediately after hearing if from some other source to get his story about what happens, and thus reducing the conflict? Of course, she might still find it too difficult to deal with even with Kaladin giving a good explanation, especially seeing as he knew but kept it from her, but I am still sceptical. And, 2) it seems that this revelation is so up in the day, I mean, it is just a short question to Dalinar or some of the other factions with an interest, Adolin immediately comes to mind, that I can’t really believe that a whole book will go by where Kaladin and Shallan interacts enough to become an item without Shallan finding out about what happened to her brother. For me, it seems more logical that her feelings towards Kaladin reaches the level that she is consciously recognising them and grappling with them, and then hears about Helaran. I think that might make for enough trouble in itself, especially given that I think the feelings between Kaladin and Shallan are already quite firmly established. Basically, I think that this news will have the most interesting impact if the two have a medium to high level of emotional connection and attraction, while their actual physical interaction is still irregular. I had an idea of Tarah arriving to pursue a romantic connection to with Kaladin right in front of Shallan’s nose, and that it might lead Shallan to recognise her feelings, but that is taken pretty much out of the blue.

From my perspective Kaladin seems to be by far the most likely option for Shallan at the end of the series based on the character arcs and interaction in WoR, which from what I have read in this thread corresponds with most posts. I should also say that it is my favourite shipping, so my reading may be biased, but I don’t think that it is. Based on WoR I am actually surprised about how evenly Kaladin and Adolin are doing on this poll. It seems to me that at this point, even if they are currently engaged, there is not much to support the Shadolin ship. I am not going to rehash all the arguments against them given in this thread, but from my perspective they are both convincing and spot on. Personally, I also found their sequences distinctly less entertaining and compelling than those between Shallan and Kaladin, which I thought were marvellously well written. The arguments in favour of Shadolin seems to be pretty much that people 1) want to avoid a love-triangle, 2) that Adolin is ‘hot’/ they are so cute, 3) that two broken people, like Kaladin and Shallan, cannot work in a well-functioning relationship, 4) that there are too many/large obstacles between Kaladin and Shallan, and 5) that they are most likely to end up with a strong non-romantic relationship e.g. like brother and sister (sorry if I missed any strong arguments or are misrepresenting them, I don’t have time to reread the entire thread, feel free to let me know though). I don’t really think that any of these arguments are very solid. With regard to argument 1) I feel confident that Mr. S will be fully able to resolve the love-situation/triangle not only satisfactory, but splendidly, and as has been pointed out earlier, it may be that Shadolin will be resolved before Shalladin happens. Also, the Shalladin interaction was amongst the most enjoyable parts of the book for me, so I would like to continue in that direction. Argument 2) is in my opinion also weak, since I don’t think a four-book long relationship centred on the good looks and unruly hair of a prince will make for very interesting reading, and also I didn’t really think that they were specifically cute together in WoR. Argument 3) might have been good if not for the fact that the interaction between Kaladin and Shallan actually seems to heal them both, at least in and after the Chasm-scene where they share and relate and the way interacting and thinking about Shallan lifts Kaladins mood. Argument 4), is, actually from my perspective an argument in favour of Shalladin because I see the impending conflicts/obstacles as further elaborations of their relationship, making the story more compelling. With regard to argument 5), I think that this ship has sailed (haha) with the way their interaction clearly shows attraction between them. Consider for example during the highstorm “… He was still glad for her presence. And aware of it in more ways than one, pushed against him and wearing the wet, increasingly tattered dress” (pp. 879). I don’t know about you guys/girls, but that is not how I would think about a sibling. So, let me lastly add some of my own reflections about Shalladin, which I think has not specifically addressed in the posts so far. Firstly, and partly related to the issue of two broken people getting together, I think it is interesting to see the way that Kaladin compares the feelings he gets from being with Shallan in the chasm with how Tien made him feel. Consider for example “He should feel like a fool. He’d done it again – he’d been telling her how easy her life was, while she’d had that hiding inside of her all along. This time, though, he didn’t feel like an idiot. He felt like he understood. Something. He didn’t know what. The chasm just seemed a little brighter. Tien always did that to me… He thought. Even on the darkest day” (pp. 850). And also, “What would he have done if, instead of living of Tien’s light, he had been required to bring light to the family” (pp. 877), and of course here he goes on to explain why he prefers a dented spear. Given Tien’s importance for Kaladin, I think that it is very significant how he connects and compares Shallan with him, and I think this is a clear indication of the importance his opinion of her, and also an argument against the ‘two broken people cant be together’ argument. Secondly, I think that the level of conscious attraction to the other in the Shallan-Kaladin relationship is pretty skewed, by which I mean that Kaladin seems aware of his own feelings for Shallan, even while he is not acting on them in any way, while Shallan, being good at repressing unwanted truths, seems to be fully intent continuing her relationship with Adolin, e.g. all the kisses. I think however that it is quite obvious that she is attracted to Kaladin while not letting this influence her actions, for example the inner dialogue when riding with Adolin. I also think her reaction when Kaladin and not the assassin returns with bridge four after the fight with Szeth, which I believe has not been mentioned before in this thread, is significant. ““Oh, thank the almighty,” Shallan whispered. It was him, not the assassin” (pp. 1050). For me, it seems like the wording it was him, is quite telling, signifying that Kaladin has a special position in her heart, that is my reading of this quote at least. Thirdly, about Tarah, and this is just loose speculation because we don’t know anthing about her, but might maybe her involvement in the story, assuming that she is a former romantic interest of Kaladin and is looking to continue that connection, be one factor speeding up Shallans realisation of her feelings for Kaladin? Jealousy is a potent force, after all. Lastly, let me just say that I am not saying that Shadolin is impossible, or that Shalladin is inevitable, just that based on WoR, I think all signs are pointing in that direction (and that I really want that to happen), and that in order for Shadolin to happen, something drastic needs to happen in their character interaction, maybe such as Adolin killing Sadeas? It might make it more interesting at least, and of course, it may be that neither ship happens.