Nebty

Yeah, I think it's more this than an actual crush. Shallan deeply respects Jasnah and looks up to her. She may also think she's attractive, but I doubt she harbors any romantic feelings towards her.

I believe Brandon did say that Renarin was getting a viewpoint chapter in OB, but probably only one.

Agreed, but this was a long time coming. After the end of WoR she can't deny her painful truths anymore, and it's driving her nuts. This is going to be what WoR was for Kaladin, I think. Which hopefully means that she'll be getting an awesome arc by the end. Crossing my fingers.

Sure. It was at one of the events in Poland:

Yay! I finally got one! And you too. I find this stuff so interesting. I've started my WoK + WoR re-read in advance of Oathbringer and it's nice to be able to talk about them.

True. I should've clarified that we haven't seen how her soulcasting interacts with illumination. Adhesion and Gravitation go hand in hand for Windrunners. And I think it'd be odd if a lightweaver's surges could be kept 100% separate. It's a chicken and egg situation. Like Kaladin's fighting. Are spren attracted to people with these abilities, or do the abilities come with the spren? It's the same debate about whether rotspren cause rot or are just attracted to it, and the answer seems to be both yes and no. Ultimately, I agree with you. I think Shallan's natural ability to inspire people is being enhanced by her surges. But I also think that the reason she's a lightweaver is because she can change people in this way. Kaladin's desire/ability to protect, Shallan's desire/ability to transform... They're part of who they are, just like their powers. It's very difficult to separate them out.

You are correct! They are not just friends. They're betrothed to be married. And even though being in love with the person you're betrothed to isn't exactly a given in upper-class Alethi society, they're definitely fond of each other, and physically/romantically attracted. However, I don't see how you could call Shallan and Kaladin "just friends" either, given all the indications we've gotten that they're both attracted to each other as well. Plus a WoB that says that there'll be "Shalladin Moments" in Oathbringer, which pretty much removes any ambiguity as to what Brandon was intending. It's a love triangle. There is mutual attraction between Shallan and Adolin, as well as between Shallan and Kaladin. We have no idea how that's going to be resolved, but it's the state things are at as of right now. Could Shallan and Kaladin's relationship have stayed pretty much the same if these romantic feelings between them had never manifested? Sure! Because for 80% of WoR they hated each other's guts. It's only really around the end that their feelings change. But that just means that we haven't seen the implications of this development yet.

I mean, you're right, they wouldn't have been presented to each other as prospects for an arranged marriage if they were the same gender. But are you trying to say that Shallan and Adolin can't be friends outside of their romantic relationship? Well, we know for sure that Kaladin at least doesn't think of Shallan as just a friend. But they are indeed friends in addition to their attraction to one another.

Again, I believe the line is fuzzier than you seem to think. Do I think that Shallan can permanently transform a physical object into a different physical object using lightweaving? No. But I do think that her transformations of herself and other people are, in some way, tied to her surges. Pattern's job is to tell her how her powers work. Why would he exclusively speak in metaphor? Words of Radiance spends so much time reinforcing how Shallan has the ability to transform lies into truth. And even if the illusions of lightweaving are temporary, the effects they have on people linger. Plus, we just don't know yet how soulcasting comes into the mix. Shallan does have the ability to permanently transform things, after all. We just haven't explicitly seen her use it yet. But the way a lightweaver uses illumination would differ from how a truthwatcher uses it because of the interaction between the two surges. You might not be able to separate the two so wholly.

I don't think it's that cut and dried. Lightweavers have been referred to as having a special ability to do something related to transforming people. That ability being tied to the Lightweavers as a whole makes it sound like it is, in part, magical. It's like Kaladin's connection with his bridgemen, it's something he does naturally but it's enhanced by his abilities as a Windrunner, shown by them gaining some small part of his abilities themselves as squires. It's all part of the strange, almost philosophical aspect to the Radiants' abilities. Which makes sense if you consider the nature of the spiritual and cognitive realms. Dalinar's role as a leader has mystical aspects to it as well. Getting back to Shallan, Pattern basically outright says that her convincing the deserters to go back for the other traders was a transformation tied to her abilities. The philosophical basis of Shallan's abilities are "truth and lies" and the interplay between them. Pattern keeps coming back to this. It reminds me strongly of Shai's abilities for that reason (I don't think it's a coincidence that they're both artists). Shai makes art because she wants to make things better than they are. She transforms things, and people, into what they could be, or could become. I have a feeling that this is how Sanderson thinks of artists, and it's why I love The Emperor's Soul. Shallan does the same thing, both consciously and unconsciously. A great example is the chasm scene. In a way, even though she didn't realize it, she helped transform Kaladin as well. He saw in her someone who had gone through similar hardship, but was able to smile, meaning that it may also be possible for him. She shows others a version of themselves that they can aspire to, and it's deeply tied to the way she transforms herself. We're starting to see the dangers in her doing that without having the truth to anchor herself (like Shai reforging herself as someone completely different, without the memory of who she truly is). However I think this is all ultimately part of her abilities as a Lightweaver. One last quote, from when Gaz asked Shallan to draw him. It's a lie. A white lie. Gaz isn't the man in the picture. But the man in the picture is what Gaz is starting to become. EDIT: And I just realized how significant the interplay between the use of the words "forge" (to produce a copy or imitation for the purpose of deception), and "reforge" (to remake something) is. Lies and truth, once again. I love The Emperor's Soul.

I don't think it's going to be as dramatic as Shai's changes, but I think what's special about the combination of illumination and transformation is that Shallan will eventually be able to go further than illusion. I'm not sure to what extent, but it's been hinted at in her transformation of the deserters.

God, I hope not. Legion was probably the only Sanderson story I disliked. It reminds me more of Shai's abilities in The Emperor's Soul.

@Aleksiel Gotcha! Just wanted to clarify.

[disregard]

I never said that. I said that the meta argument was unconvincing because everything is tropes. And that arguing that one plot point is objectively better than another because one is too tropey misses the point that "too tropey" is an entirely subjective thing. I wasn't attacking your particular feelings about the characters, just the way you were arguing.