WitSpren

Maxal, I find several of your examples to be pretty flimsy. Dear old Mom, come on, who would not remember Mom. Even Delanar's POVs have a gaggle of SHHH's where he would have remembered her - if it had not been deliberately erased. & Renaren remembers her because he is always asking Adolin if he has the locket. But Adolin's lack of effort to even learn about wines, when he is always drinking wines, is easily the opposite of refined. Add onto that several instances where he is confused by words. "you are good at not being un-obnoxious" and "Jashnaistic" would be a negative for the articulate. BUT, taken as a whole, your post does have significant merit. Enough so, that I think that you have a winner there and (with a few reservations) I'll call myself convinced. Seriously, I'll feel much better now if/when he becomes an Edgedancer. Also, you gave me something to add to my list above. The person trying to revive a Blade needs to have been "Broken" - How did I leave THAT ONE off??

Thanks Seerow, for giving the exact quote, mush better than my muddled memory. I know that Adolin and maybe some others (including you) might see Adolin as "articulate and refined" but I do not see him as being especially articulate and instead of refined, I just see spoiled. Don't get me wrong, I like his character, but just do not consider him to be these things. Others are free to feel otherwise. Now on the "I will remember those who have been forgotten." I really remember nothing from Adolin that fits this description. I would be glad if someone could five a quote that seems to fit it.

Stoned, Sorry if my post was/is misleading. I am just listing all the reasons that I can think of that have made it so hard to revive a Spren. I would be glad to have others add to it. I just thought of another: After they died, their bodies were used to do very un-Radiant things. And another: If the same Spren provides both the Blade and the Plate (we do not know this yet), then the reviver would need to have a matching set prior to starting the revival process. Then I also listed ways that could be used to Revive them, in-Mass, even though we know that per-Brandon it will not happen, within the books that he plans to write. But we can always "dream" of a future where it doe happen. Sorry my post confused you.

I agree that Adolin is the most like to revive his blade, but where did people get the idea that it is an Edgedancer blade? If it is an Edgedancer blade, I think that makes Adolin less likely to revive it as I think that there are statements that Edgedancers tend to be Intelligent and Scholarly, which Adolin is definitely not. I do not think that Lift is Scholarly as well, but with her it is questionable as she is very young and has lots of time to change. Adolin refuses to even learn simple Glyphs. Besides that, Adolin does not seem to have any attributes or desire to be a healer. His effort to protect the whore in AWOK was more of a protector than "remembering those who others have forgotten". Here are some of my thoughts on Blade revival, from another thread where it did not exactly fit, I do not think that it is all that hard to revive a Blade, it is just that a large number of circumstances have to align correctly: The normal method of Blade acquisition, no thought is given to the spirit (spren) of the blade. A Blade is either won or given to a person and after about a week of possession a limited bond is Forced onto the willing or unwilling BladeSpren. That being said - the only way that the Spren could be Revived is if: 1. The person that bonded the blade, Says or or has already said the first oath.(and actually Meant it). 2. Most likely the person would need to proceed with additional oaths that are aligned with the Spren of the blade that he happens to be bonded with. If it is a Windrunner blade, he would need to swear oaths associated with an Honor Spren. If it is a Lightweaver blade the person would need to acknowledge sufficient Truths to awaken the Blade. 3. I am not sure if it would take 2,3 oaths or possibly; the same level of oaths as the original owner. 4. I also think that talking to the blade, as Adolin does in WoR, might facilitate the revival. Such as discussing "honor issues" that the person might have in trying to live up to their particular oaths. That said, I think these are what make it so hard to "awaken" a Blade. The person and the Blade are thrown together completely randomly. If a person bonded a Lightweaver Blade but their temperament was that of a Windrunner, then they could never complete enough "oaths" for the blade that he had to revive it. Especially since most people of this world do not even live by the very First Oath. In addition, Now that they have several actual KRs and their associated Spren, they "might" have an advantage that could aid in the Spren Revival. 1. They now have several Spren that might be able to look and determine what Spren is associated with each Blade. 2. Failing that, they now have a Lightweaver and a Elsecaller that can partially interface with Shadesmar and determine the type of Spren associated with a Blade. 3. Once that is determined, the current KRs could look for people that "potentially" have the personality that would be compatible with that Blade's Spren AND at Least be fully understanding of and have said that First Oath, before they bond a particular Blade. 4. If a person selected in 3 above, proves to be unable to advance the bond or revive the Blade, then they could be required to relinquish said Blade to another prospective person

Very interesting theory. Not sure what I think of it yet or how/if it would connect my own thoughts on Spren Revival. The normal method of Blade acquisition, no thought is given to the spirit (spren) of the blade. A Blade is either won or given to a person and after about a week of possession a limited bond is Forced onto the willing or unwilling BladeSpren. That being said - the only way that the Spren could be Revived is if: 1. The person that bonded the blade, Says or or has already said the first oath.(and actually Meant it). 2. Most likely the person would need to proceed with additional oaths that are aligned with the Spren of the blade that he happens to be bonded with. If it is a Windrunner blade, he would need to swear oaths associated with an Honor Spren. If it is a Lightweaver blade the person would need to acknowledge sufficient Truths to awaken the Blade. 3. I am not sure if it would take 2,3 or possibly; the same level of oaths as the original owner. 4. I also think that talking to the blade, as Adolin does in WoR, might facilitate the revival. Such as discussing "honor issues" that the person might have in trying to live up to their particular oaths. That said, I think these are what make it so hard to "awaken" a Blade. The person and the Blade are thrown together completely randomly. If a person bonded a Lightweaver Blade but their temperament was that of a Windrunner, then they could never complete enough "oaths" for the blade that he had to revive it. Especially since most people of this world do not even live by the very First Oath. Now that they have several actual KRs and their associated Spren, they "might" have an advantage that could aid in the Spren Revival. 1. They now have several Spren that might be able to look and determine what Spren is associated with each Blade. 2. Failing that, they now have a Lightweaver and a Elsecaller that can partially interface with Shadesmar and determine the type of Spren associated with a Blade. 3. Once that is determined, the current KRs could look for people that "potentially" have the personality that would be compatible with that Blade's Spren AND at Least be fully understanding of and have said that First Oath, before they bond a particular Blade. 4. If a person selected in 3 above, proves to be unable to advance the bond or revive the Blade, then they could be required to relinquish said Blade to another prospective person. Just my thoughts on the subject, not sure how they would interface with your theory.

Sorry all, but there is very little in the books that I don't like. I do mostly, like the Chasm scenes (exception below) and all the character flashbacks (including Shallan). As I said in another post a little over a year ago, I like WoR so much I had read it at least 20 times - at that point. Anyway, back sort of on thread topic: I was going to start my own topic, but I found this thread and so am using this one. My thread title was going to be: "How Stupid Was That?" There are many of these, but I only have a couple here. 1. In the Chasm scene, after Shallan gives Kal the Shardblade - he does WHAT??? He jumps out into the open chasm & fights the bug!!! How Stupid is That!!! Why not lean out like he did before, to make it attack their crevice (where they are safe) again & using the 6 foot blade, poke it in the eye & chop off each claw that it puts near their crevice. Much better tactic than exposing yourself. Or using the Blade, start cutting a safe tunnel up to the top. He could chop pieces and Shallan could toss them out into the Chasm. Again, a lot safer than fighting the bug in open chasm. 2. In the big Voidbringer battle near the end, EVERYONE knows that they all are in VERY DEEP EXCREMENT. But Shallan and Delinar both choose to not contribute their Shardblades to the battle!!! How Stupid Is That!!! Shallan had already told Delinar that she was a KR and she could have turned her blade over to him (in Private) to be used by an experienced Blade fighter. Delinar could have done the same with his own Blade. He could have even warned the fighters that if/when the blade was needed they would be "called" back to the original owners. They might have even done this with Renerin's Blade. The Blades all could have been well used with Roion's army to change it from a loss to a big win. I'm not saying that Shallan/Delinar/Renerin knew that they would not need the Blades, but I am saying that they all 3 know that they could be used by others until they were called by their owners. They were very important tools to be used, but they were just (mostly) ignored. THIS IS NOT A CONDEMNATION of BS Writing!!! Not at all! I actually think that the writing is GREAT!!! I think that it is very appropriate to show people doing really, Really, REALLY stupid things. That is because I see people in the Real World doing unbelievably stupid things almost every day. I drive a truck and can see into peoples cars quite easily. You would not believe the stupid things I see people doing!! Texting & driving (that is an easy one), but just this week I saw a guy on a computer playing a card game!!!. A couple months ago I even saw one that was X rated!! How Stupid Is That!!! I refuse to answer any questions about how many times I have read it now, but the two books are just so damnation enjoyable!!! How Stupid Is That! Ha! Ha! Anyway, what do you think. And please bring up your own "How Stupid Is That!" moment/scene.

From the Jasna/Wit final WoR POV, it is obvious that Hoid is somehow in contact with the Spren world. Enough so that he knew where she would Else Call to and knew that she was causing trouble (very demanding) on the other side. From the Hoid Quote: "He gave me only a brief message for your father, and that only because I mentioned I would be traveling this direction" It seems clear to me that he came to Shallan's city in search of a Surgebinder that the Spren had told him of. It was not until he saw her (and was surprised/dropped his glass) that he realized that he had actually found her and unexpectedly found her. I agree that he can obviously somehow see surgebinders. Since he drank the powders after he displayed surprise, I think that it was not Allomancy that he uses to see them. He also obviously sees that Kal is a surgebinder.

*(#^*#$&$#) He beat me to it!!! That is exactly what I was going to say! UP!

Pattern does take off from time to time. When Shalan is going on the Ghostblood mission the check out the Mad Man. While she is drawing, he explores & comes back. He had already found the Mad Man and a woman writing "rust" on the wall. Also: He went off to watch Sebarial take a bath. He went off and listened to her newly acquired soldiers (all night or a significant portion) after she killed Tyn. I had another but forgot it. Judging from those, he probably "wanders" quite a bit. I think that the "bond" allows them all to do this but the link draws them back when they feel the "need" from the human. (With the exception of when Kal was "breaking" the link with his bad decisions.)

We're still missing something here. In the fight between Szeth and Kaladin Kaladin gives Szeth the following injuries: -stabbed in the shoulder with Syl, not enough to disable the arm, "The strike to the shoulder hadn't fully severed the soul leading to the arm". The text says "Indeed, he didn't try to heal his shoulder-which would have required a lot of light-" As we are from Kaladin's perspective it's possible that Kaladin thought Szeth could heal it and is wrong. Szeth isn't mentioned as healing it once they enter the storm and have effectively unlimited stormlight, but Kaladin also makes no mention of it not being healed. As he thought Szeth would be able to heal it (whether he actually can or not) you would expect that he might mention it if he noticed that Szeth didn't in fact, heal it. I'm not sure how obvious the injury was though. -"Kaladin spun around and slashed his spear-which became a sword-through Szeth's foot." I am guessing that cut just killed the foot not the whole leg but I don't think we know for certain. -"Kaladin swung down and a hammer appeared in his hand, crashing into Szeth's shoulder, breaking bones" This one has always confused me a bit, I'm guessing it doesn't cut through Szeth because people don't expect a hammer to cut? -"As stormlight tried to heal the assassin, Kaladin pulled in close and slammed his hand against Szeth's stomach, a knife appearing there and digging deeply into the skin. He sought the spine." On the next page: "Szeth slowed, his wounds healing." So he definitely healed wounds made by a shardblade (or Kaladin was mistaken somehow I guess?). The blow to the shoulder from the hammer appears to have just broken bones so that's well enough to heal. But the other injuries were definitely cuts with Syl. So what are we supposed to think here? Can stormlight used through honorblades heal flesh wounds caused by a shardblade but not limbs that have been cut through? That seems a little inconsistent to me but also seems to fit with what he said. Except that the part that was changed doesn't really relate to that. This healing is still in the new edition. The only difference is whether Szeth was stabbed through the wrist or through the spine. Considering this from another angle; to my knowledge an honorblade really isn't a "dead" shardblade, so why does Brandon's comment even relate to the current situation? Was it just poor choice of wording? Did he mean to include honorblades in that statement? Or is there something we don't know about how the honorblades were made? But we know that it isn't a dead spren, unless it's somehow dead enough that living spren can't detect/feel that it was once a living spren. This sounds like a stretch to me. Is it saying that with enough stormlight a knight radiant could heal from having their spine hit with a shardblade? That seems the most literal interpretation of Brandon's words, but sounds like it wouldn't work too well narratively. Yeah, I'm confused. I agree, there was more references that the one mentioned. If you change one, you need to change them all. I agree that he should value and attempt to protect the defenseless Szeth, as a very valuable source of information - and probably as a human. But I do not agree that Kal could know or would assume that he could find the blade later. If the choice was one or the other, then save the Honor blade to keep it away from Bad Guys & give the Good Guys another powerful weapon. I do not see Kal's oaths to have proceeded to the point of "Protect people from themselves. (Suicide)" I have a greater problem with Szeth doing suicide when he said that he could not, even though he wanted to. I think that it would have been better to have Kal grab the blade and then grab Szeth, but in grabbing Szeth he had to enter the storm (again), where (unpowered) Szeth is hit by a boulder and knocked from Kal's grasp. THEN Kal gives up on Szeth - as no unpowered man could have survived that impact. Just my suggestion of how to make it smoother - maybe? You tell me.

I brought up the 11th Lamp issue being the lock and the fact that it would take too much stormlight to move all those people and buildings in another thread 4 or 5 months ago in another thread. I also like the idea of the failsafe issue brought up in this thread.. So, my current theory is that the gates were originally locked via the 11th lamp, then after everyone forgot about them/decided that they would never work again, they were built on and lived on which kicked in the overloaded and failsafe blocks. So now, they probably would not work even if the 11th lamp locks were removed. The other oathgates probably have the same issues. Hopefully they will find one or two that can be cleared relatively easily.

Also, Kal sees Syl get interested in one (probably dead) that is encased in glass on the King's desk at the first meeting that he guarded.

Thanks ccstat, I ran a search but did not think to check the Typos thread.

All the other Heralds are wandering around in various damaged states. One is likely (willingly or unwillingly) playing the part of "Crazy Talen". So where is the Real Talen? The Everstorm & Desolation are here now. So why has Talen not been released yet? Or is he has - where is he? Also, if he has not been released yet - does he still have his own blade?

"It turns out" Adolin said, "that I'm in possession of not one, but two new Shardblades and three sets of Plate." and then next paragraph: "One complete set of those Shards is going to General Khal, and I've ordered two sets of plate given to appropriate lighteyes of rank in my fathers army." That totals to three Shardplate and one Shardblade already given away: Then he says: "That leaves one full set." (For Kal) But no it does not. It would leave only one Shardblade. as all three of the Plate were already given away. Second issue. How did Elit even get into the Duel? He had to borrow the kings Plate and used a Hammer. He had nothing to loose - that stinks. He should have had the potential of loosing Something!! What do you all think?