paperhouse

maybe that ardent that joined the cause? \

I have a pet theory, that Liss/the weaper is Vedeledev So here is a copy/paste from that thread. Evidence: 1) her accent. considering the herald inate language abilities, he skill with changing her accent seems perfectly reasonable. 2) gouging out the eyes. Vedeledev's body focus in the eyes. the weeper gouges them out. but gouging out the eyes seems a bit extreme, even if you do kill with a shardblade. why? because in a world dominated by shardblade and plate, gouging out the eyes would be a dead giveaway if someone bothered to put two and two together. 2b) there is no evidence that she has light eyes. infact, the maid's outfit she appears in seems evidence to the contrary. now how would she have a shard blade and still have dark eyes, unless she is a herald? rember szeth's eyes only changed color when he had summoned his blade (I think, I don't have the quote though) 3)I am a believer in the idea that after the heralds broke the oathpact, they lived based on a corrupted version of the attributes. Vedeledev's divine attributes are loving and healing. A hired assassin is about as for from that as you can get. As for the number of honorblades, she might have been the herald to reclaim theirs, or brandon/the stone shamans might have mislead us.

It could definitely go either way but this seems like something sanderson would do. sort of like the drunk in the prologue of WoK being jezrien.

I bet she is not just a herald, she is Vedeledev. Evidence: 1) her accent. considering the herald inate language abilities, he skill with changing her accent seems perfectly reasonable. 2) gouging out the eyes. Vedeledev's body focus in the eyes. the weeper gouges them out. but gouging out the eyes seems a bit extreme, even if you do kill with a shardblade. why? because in a world dominated by shardblade and plate, gouging out the eyes would be a dead giveaway if someone bothered to put two and two together. 2b) there is no evidence that she has light eyes. infact, the maid's outfit she appears in seems evidence to the contrary. now how would she have a shard blade and still have dark eyes, unless she is a herald? rember szeth's eyes only changed color when he had summoned his blade (I think, I don't have the quote though) 3)I am a believer in the idea that after the heralds broke the oathpact, they lived based on a corrupted version of the attributes. Vedeledev's divine attributes are loving and healing. A hired assassin is about as for from that as you can get. As for the blades, she might have been the herald to reclaim theirs, or brandon/the stone shamans might have mislead us.

From the chapter 58 epigraph: This makes it pretty clear that the lightweavers didn't have specific words for ideals, rather they used truth as a means to gain self awareness. This fits because the ideals for the other orders are a way of defining and dedicating ones self to a specific purpose (like protecting). The lightweavers are considered to be creative/honest, so the ideals as a means to self awareness make far more sense than swearing to understand yourself. Szeth was following the laws of the truthless, whereas adolin broke the law of alethkar. moral equivocation like comparing szeth to adolin has very little with being a skybreaker. actions are judged purely by the law regardless of circumstance. Finally, did szeth join a society or an order? my personal inclination is that he is to become a radiant for a couple of reasons. In dalinar's vision about the midnight essance, the Knight implies that training in Urithiru can help in becoming a radiant (presumably attracting the nehal bond). It seems reasonable that the former leader of an order would be able to encourage such a bond to form, especially with a potential member of his associated order. Second, Szeth is broken because of his sense of justice. Szeth is so commited to following the law as he knows it, he destroys him self and goes almost insane(there were some borderline moments in there). Likely he couldn't develop a nehal bond due to his honorblade (not a known fact, but it seems a reasonable conclusion). Szeth is difficult to present in this format, because I didn't want to leave out information that was stated very explicitly in the book, but he definitely lacks a spren bond. The way I see, Skybreakers as an order definitely exist, and as a secret society may possibly exist, thus when Szeth is allowed to join them, it is much more reasonable to say he joined the order rather than the society.

What about the dalinar/stormfather pairing?

For Dalinar 2/3rd ideal: I am basing this iff if the wikipedia, so while I am personally inclined to agree with the arguement that It is only the second ideal, I am designing this in line wit hthe wiki, thus I have it listed as 3. For the highspren: Words of Radiance: Chapter 59 said This is a quote from Syl. given the divine attribute of just for order two, the inherit relationship of justice and laws, and this quote, it is logical to assume highspren are asociated with order two, the skybreakers. this is verified by the wiki, which I am trying to simplify and present tabularly. For shallan: I classified her as Ideal level 3 because she had the first oath and two subsequent truths. I discount the incident with the goblet because all of her other truths were things she was in denial about, things she did not even remeber. In speaking the truth, she aknowledged that aspect of her past and that is what allowed her to progress. Wit hthe goblet she told them she was afraid. I think that the cryptics intervined in order to begin the process of her bonding/rebonding pattern and that is why they only needed a weak truth, they had no nehal bond.

that's embarassing. It's fixed now, however

i'm not sure the shardblade comes only withthe third ideal for all orders. Shallan has the shard blade before her first or second truth Also, I have dalinar at 3 because the bondsmith page on the wiki (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Bondsmiths) indicates he said 2 ideals instead of just the one. But I agree that in the book it only seems like one ideal, this caught me off guard.

I'm putting this here instead of in the normal stormlight area due to the spoiler content. So this is based off of primarily the ars arcanum in the back of the book and information on the wiki page. The only information I am not sure of is I tried to set this up more like a relational database, or at least the beginnings of one. This books level of organization lends itself to that detailed of classifications. I took this approach because I assumed that eventually there is going to be more than just 10 surgebinders, with one of each order. Ideally we would set up a separate people table and use the surgebinders table as a supplement to those who can surebind, but I mainly made this for the clarification and cleanliness of information about the 10 orders. I'd like to include the faces of the heralds and the glyphs, but I'm using an excel spreadsheet right now and it doesn't like images. All that being said, this first one is less spoilery PLEASE NOTE: I am basing this on the wikipedia. So for those of you saying that Dalinar only said the second ideal, while I agree the wiki says that was 2 and 3 so that is what I am using here (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Bondsmiths). And this one has loads of WoR spoilers, so you've been warned As always, input/corrections are welcome!

It's likely, but i'd rather get conformation of his second surge before I add him to the table

done

Thanks for the tip. go ahead and use the photo, thats the whole point of posting it here

I'm pretty new to this, so forgive any errors or lapses in information. I don't think anyone else has done this, but if they have I apologize. When I first got into the theororizing/wild speculation side of the way of kings, I found this ars arcanum to be very helpful, if incomplete. So using mainly the information found here I updated the ars arcanum. I added Order and Surge names, as well as known members. I didn't include any order/surge/herald thumbnails, though, as I don't have any of those images on hand. I also made the document in excel, but I can't upload the document itself, so I'll just use pictures instead. If I made any mistakes or omissions, let me know!