Justice

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Cool glad you had seen! So I agree, there must be something with the two of them coming together. Speculation seems almost pointless since Sanderson always surprises me but then why else am I on a prerelease forum? The difference in how these characters deal with their individual challenges may echo the differences between Shallan and Kaladin in their handling of their mental health issues. Kaladin wasn’t fixed after learning of Shallans past but he did learn about another way people behave. The coming together of perspectives should be fruitful to say the least. Aaah I want to read it now!!!

Apologies, couldn't find the link but someone asked about disability representation in the r/brandonsanderson subreddit and Brandon replied and conversed with the person a lot about this. Not that it was spoilery but since you were asking about this I thought you might be interested. If someone else can google-fu the link before I get a chance please post below. Otherwise I'll keep searching and update when I find it. Edit: here'e the response. The initial post/letter/essay is worth a read!

Thanks all. Sorry, evidence of what? To be clear, my speculation is wild. I also like that it might be the Shin, but I’m enamored with the idea that it was the Mink who snuck the ruby to Navani. I have no evidence aside from thematic alignment, freedom and all.

Hi all, I keep seeing the position that someone who honestly seeks the freedom of spren would not use an enslaving fabrial to communicate their desire to end this practice. I would simply remind these people that Ruin could preserve to ensure further ruin and Preservation could destroy to preserve. Brando builds contradictions into his characterization and magic systems and thus we cannot use absolutes to predict plot outcomes. If shards can contradict their intent in the short term for larger goals certainly splinters and people can do the same. The surgically targeted communique to Navani using a spanreed to shutter her dispersement of conjoined and other fabrial technology is not some fundamental violation of absolute beliefs that renders it immutably either ingenuous or contradictory. A last-ditch effort by those with similar ends who would prefer to redirect the behavior of a dominant set of compatriots is more likely. Speculation given this set of assumptions: it isn’t a “sibling”. It isn’t Odium. It is a Wilshaper trying to avoid splitting the front against odium before things cross a line.

I think it is the Mink. This is the Willshaper Book, Willshapers seek freedom, and fabrials imprison spren. In addition, Willshapers are close to spren like the elsecallers of the past. The Mink could have placed it and his spren or another Reacher could have done the communicating.

I wonder about the role of Odium in the corrupted Nale version of the Skybreakers. I'm in the middle of part 3 of oathbringer for the upteenth time right now. The passions are always wanting people to give up their worries, their sorrow, their guilt. The Nale version of Skybreaker oaths seem to echo this notion: abandon what you know to be right and follow an external version. You don't need to worry about what is right, only enforce it. I think it is corrupted. Justice (ha! username) is more than enforcing the letter of the law. Windrunners aren't Skybreakers following an internal rather than external moral code. They want to protect people. Yes, that might be protection from injustice, but that is not equivalent to judication. A better Skybreaker seeks justice under the law, not enforcement. Nale's version is corrupted and flawed.

If you’ve never heard the song I Palindrome I by They Might Be Giants this will be new to you: "Son I am able, " she said "though you scare me." "Watch, " said I "Beloved, " I said "watch me scare you though." said she, "Able am I, Son."

Throwing my hat in the ring: Failing in journey, learn, stumble; learning to journey in failure

Oathbringer makes it clear that the wording of the later oaths, specifically of the Skybreakers and Windrunners, are individually determined and personal. The Skybreakers are all about finding a code you can follow and becoming the law in your own way. Without further evidence, this could be assumed to be only a Skybreaker trait. However, with the utterance of the third oath by Teft, it is clear that this extends to other orders. An aside, I really disliked Kaladin’s “so long as it is right” oath, but LOVED Teft’s version. Shallan’s truths in lieu of oaths foreshadowed this idea, for one person’s truth is not another’s. Each oath after the first two is very much personal and individual. I really like where this can take the series, and what it does for character development. Each Radiant will have their own path to each order’s advancement based on their lives, limitations, and “broken-ness” for lack of a better word. So, if we assume that the Windrunners’ final oath will be analogous to the Skybreakers’, what might Kaladin’s oath to “become Honor” look like? What does that mean? Shot in the dark: “I will uphold all of my promises to the best of my ability, and forgive myself when I fail, because the journey to Honor does not end when you stumble.”

There are so many juicy opportunities for conflict in this! I think Shallan’s affiliation with the Ghostbloods will be part of her moving away from her wardship relationship with Jasnah. Shallan has proven herself and has a role in the KR without Jasnah, and Jasnah’s reappearance threatens that position. In the end, I imagine we will see them become peers that use the ghost blood connection to seek out hidden histories.

I think the deeper truth is that they are all lies, all parts of her that emerge in different situations for different needs. She needs to embrace the girl who couldn’t laugh as part of who she is, stop burying it and let it live alongside the many other people she has been and will need to be. This allows her to both confront the horrible past but doesn’t fall into a mental health stereotype.

Ah, thanks @Leyrann. Knew i probably jumped the gun on the theory there. Hard to keep the timeline straight when I get excited about something. The similarities between the issues that Kaladin and Nale/Nin/Darkness are having, along with the Tanavast and Dalinar discussion, and even the alleyway scene with Jasnah and Shallan all make my brain itch! Luckily we will know more in just a few days! It is probably just Kaladin’s processing to get to the next oath. But still, even if it is that, there’s something more there. It is almost as if there’s always another secret or something...

I’ve been thinking about the Kaladin chapter from this week and his conversation with Syl about what is “right”, while happening to re-read the end of WoR and Edgedancer and something leapt out regarding relative morality: Emphasis added and all. Then I read in Edgedancer: And This seems to be a series of hints to me. Our curren KR are bound by oaths, as the KR were in the past. What’s missing? A living Honor to guide the oaths. Without Honor, the oaths could lead to (and may have led to) another desolation. But you have to stick to a chosen code. The most recent oath Kaladin has spoken included the phrase “so long as it is right.” Yet his current situation with the Parshendi suggests that he is unsure of the foundation of what is right and wrong. How does one uphold an oath to do what is right when one doubts the foundations of right and wrong? Kaladin struggles with this more than any other POV up to this point. Now Dalinar is our main POV and he converses with Taravangian about what makes a good ruler. (An aside, Taravangian is about the most utilitarian moralist I’ve ever seen in a fantasy novel). The theory? Without Honor guiding the oaths, the foundations of the oaths that guide the KR lose their foundation. This revelation builds over time, resulting in the recreance, where the KR as a whole aknoclwge that, post honor’s death, by following their oaths, they have been enforcing a relative morality guided by the “fallen” heralds that has no moral foundation. Instead of continuing to abide by these oaths, they break their bonds and walk away from their duties. This solves the problem of 9 out of 10 with Darkness’ justification of his actions. Without delving too far into moral development, obeying the law is actually considered a lower level of moral development than following a code of ethics. To obey the law to avoid punishment is lower on the progression of morality than to follow your own moral compass. Yet Darkness retains his order by imposing the law, as it exists in a particular jurisdiction, as the chosen code. This allows his skybreakers to avoid the catastrophic impact of the death of Honor. They retain a reference to guide their oaths, while those orders who could care less about the particular laws of a given country, lose their moral foundation. Very much welcoming thoughts on this as we eagerly await Oathbringer’s release on Tuesday!!

Hey all, on my regular reading of io9.com I found an exclusive audiobook excerpt from Oathbringer Chapter 3, the first Dalinar flashback. https://io9.gizmodo.com/hear-an-exclusive-preview-of-brandon-sandersons-new-fan-1820300131 Cheers!