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Parshendi and Shardblades

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Spoiler

At the end of Oathbringer, when Venli bonds Timbre, a Knights Radiant spren, the spren dwells on her gem heart. Once she reaches her third ideal, will she be able to summon Timbre as a shardblade? If so, what happens to the voidspren?  What happens to her radiant powers when the spren leaves the gem heart to manifest as a blade?

 

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I suspect she'll get a blade like any other radiant, without issue. I think voidspren would remain imprisoned (and provide for her current Form) while Timbre would be as free to manifest in the Physical realm via the Nahel Bond like any other Radiant's spren.  I dont think the fact that she bonded a Singer should make her less capable, or more bound, especially given that she managed to Imprison another. 

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I don't think a Singer can get a shardblade. The spren are a lot more bound when they bond a Singer vs a human. I thought that was why the spren "betrayed" the singers in the first place.

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Timbre is not "bound" to Venli in the same manner as a spren she bonds for a form.

If anything, I think timbres ability to enter her gemheart would be liable to give her abilities that a human Radiant would lack, not less. 

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Then why did spren choose humans? I believe there is a line WoR that says something along the line of "the singers were to close to cognitive realm and the spren choose humans because they could pull the spren into the physical realm more." I believe the line was in one of the listener's  songs. ... (Obviously I paraphrase. Also I'm not tech smart enough to find the exact quote...sigh:-)

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Oathbringer is not in the spoiler period so you neither need the [OB] tag or the spoilers marked in your post, since this is Cosmere Discussion. I've removed the topic tag.

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I strongly believe that Venli would be unable to summon a Blade in the state she is in.

If in a future moment, Venli will change Form turning into a not Regal form, Timbre is no more required to keep in check the Voidspren in her and she could in theory be not restricted into her gemheart.

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10 hours ago, Yata said:

I strongly believe that Venli would be unable to summon a Blade in the state she is in.

If in a future moment, Venli will change Form turning into a not Regal form, Timbre is no more required to keep in check the Voidspren in her and she could in theory be not restricted into her gemheart.

Im not sure I understand why you think she'd be limited?  Is it because you believe Timbre is too busy proving her a Form like a normal Singer-bond, or because Timbre is too busy restraining the imprisoned Voidspren to manifest Physically?  I dont buy the Former because I dont think Timbre is currently involved in the Form at all.  The Latter I could see it going either way, with no real evidence to make me lean in either direction.  It certainly is possibly that however Timbre is restraining the Voidspren is a process that requires her to remain partially spiritual and actively focused on the restraint.  On the other hand, outside of the Godspren (that are clearly special cases) we havent seen a single instance where manifesting a blade interfered with surges or any other spren capabilities, so I'm hesitant to assume there will be one here. 

 

On 10/11/2018 at 0:53 PM, Steel Inqusitive said:

Then why did spren choose humans? I believe there is a line WoR that says something along the line of "the singers were to close to cognitive realm and the spren choose humans because they could pull the spren into the physical realm more." I believe the line was in one of the listener's  songs. ... (Obviously I paraphrase. Also I'm not tech smart enough to find the exact quote...sigh:-)

You mean to become Radiants?  They were mimcking the Heralds and the Honorblades, and so were imitating a process that had only been established for Humans. 

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13 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Im not sure I understand why you think she'd be limited?  Is it because you believe Timbre is too busy proving her a Form like a normal Singer-bond, or because Timbre is too busy restraining the imprisoned Voidspren to manifest Physically?  I dont buy the Former because I dont think Timbre is currently involved in the Form at all.  The Latter I could see it going either way, with no real evidence to make me lean in either direction.  It certainly is possibly that however Timbre is restraining the Voidspren is a process that requires her to remain partially spiritual and actively focused on the restraint.  On the other hand, outside of the Godspren (that are clearly special cases) we havent seen a single instance where manifesting a blade interfered with surges or any other spren capabilities, so I'm hesitant to assume there will be one here. 

The latter, whatever Timbre is performing with the Voidspren requires her to stay in the gemheart and bully the Voidspren. She can't manifest herself as Blade and at the same time doing that. So for me Timbre manifesting as a Blade would mean for the Voidspren to gain measure of freedom and influence over Venli.

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5 minutes ago, Yata said:

The latter, whatever Timbre is performing with the Voidspren requires her to stay in the gemheart and bully the Voidspren. She can't manifest herself as Blade and at the same time doing that. So for me Timbre manifesting as a Blade would mean for the Voidspren to gain measure of freedom and influence over Venli.

Fair enough.  I think Im in a wait&see mode on that.  In general I think the only ones that have an issue manifesting a Blade are the Godspren, and that's only because they (or at least the Stormfather) already has a specific Physical Realm manifestation (The Highstorm Itself in the case of the Stormfather).

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1 hour ago, Yata said:

The latter, whatever Timbre is performing with the Voidspren requires her to stay in the gemheart and bully the Voidspren. She can't manifest herself as Blade and at the same time doing that.

So, I've heard this "Timbre is restricted to Venli's gemheart" thing a few, but don't know where it came from.  I'm only part way through my reread of Oathbringer, so maybe it hasn't come up yet.  

After the Everstorm, when the other Listeners are transformed into the Fused, but Venli is not, Timbre appears on the ground beside them - not in Venli's gemheart (OB I-6).  

Also, it seems like most of the time Timbre is hiding in a pouch that Venli wears, not in Venli's gemheart (OB I-7).  

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Timbre is able to enter Venli's gemheart and further suppress the voidspren... But I still don't think it's necessary. In Venli's first interlude she says she can't even hear the old rhythms, and then with Timbre present, she attunes then multiple times throughout the book. 

I don't think that Timbre needs to be in the gemheart to give Venli freedom of thought, otherwise she shouldn't have had it for the majority of OB. 

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@Quantus here's The quote I was thinking about.... And now I'm confused.... Because your right that the spren were mimicking the honorblades. So were the spren considering joining odium and fused? If not, how did they "betray" The Listneners?

 The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. —From the Listener Song of Spren, 9th stanza

WoR ch39

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50 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

@Quantus here's The quote I was thinking about.... And now I'm confused.... Because your right that the spren were mimicking the honorblades. So were the spren considering joining odium and fused? If not, how did they "betray" The Listneners?

 The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. —From the Listener Song of Spren, 9th stanza

WoR ch39

Notice it says "they give us our forms" 

They speaking of all spren as one. The fact that humans were granted the Nahel bond would seem a betrayal, and you also have the apparent betrayal of greater spren like the Stormfather, who had always been present and even facilitates their form changes, but actually bonds with humans. 

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1 hour ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

@Quantus here's The quote I was thinking about.... And now I'm confused.... Because your right that the spren were mimicking the honorblades. So were the spren considering joining odium and fused? If not, how did they "betray" The Listneners?

 The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. —From the Listener Song of Spren, 9th stanza

Hey Steel Inquisitive, I bolded the part that i think is most important from the quote you pulled.

Humans are an all you can eat buffet of experience/emotion, listeners are a small plate fancy restaraunt. They ditched the listeners for humans because the experience/emotions they got from humans accelerated their development.

Look at the progression of pattern, same time, if he was bonded to a listener, he wouldn't be nearly so cognitively advanced. That's why I think they started bonding humans (this quote specifically).

@Yata makes a really good point, Venli has her form of power precisely because she is bonded to a voidspren (which currently resides in her gemheart). If she doesn't divest herself of the voidspren, then Timbre seems relegated to dampening the effect of the voidspren duty, which would seem to preclude the summoning of a sprenblade. But the question then becomes, how does Radiant Venli progress? How does she go forward? Can she be a Scholar form Radiant? Worst case is that she is a dull form Radiant. This is interesting to speculate about, I'm sure Brandon has a plan (he is an outliner after all), but this is totally uncharted territory. Fun stuff.

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