animalia Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 I was just thinking about what Kelseir went through. All of his old friends and family, with the exception of Marsh and Sazed, are long dead. Being bathed in Preservation’s essence is probably the reason why he can’t pass on. As a result he’s probably looking for a purpose in life. And in the meantime think about what he’s seen. He’s seen the slow march of time, BUT without the ability of something like history books of the ascended mindset of a shard to give him perspective on how things havr slowly, but surely, changed. To him it might seem like humans keep repeating the same old dumb mistakes. Tell me what you think of this idea? I can elaborate and expand on it if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 I think he's searching for answers to the nature of the Cosmere and the Shard conflicts. In MB:SH he learned how little he knew and how his killing TLR led to disaster. I agree he could be getting frustrated with humanity. I think he wants a way off of the planet which he hasn't found yet. That will lead to greater understanding. Quote Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)#6 Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Has Kelsier done any worldhopping? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Kelsier is bound to Scadrial the same way that a spren is bound to Roshar, because of the level of Investiture and the type and the way it happened. It is possible to get offworld but he does not know what it is. Speaking of doing the same thing over and over he does keep establishing religions based on himself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niteshado Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: Speaking of doing the same thing over and over he does keep establishing religions based on himself. Well he is a massive Narcissist, but hes still awesome. 29 minutes ago, animalia said: As a result he’s probably looking for a purpose in life I assume he got bored really quickly. Spoiler Hence him talking to spook and trying to get himself a body. So i would assume hes still trying to do something. Hopefully we will see him more or learn more with the next mistborn book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) You can pass on even if you literally held the shard but those people who held a shards power can just choose not to if they want . Vin/Rashek/Ati didn't even bother staying for more than a minute if you think about how short those peoples post-death conversations are. Kelsier can leave but he choose not to. Which kinda answers his purpose indirectly he just doesn't wanna move on. I feel like this is gonna backfire soon enough but we could say "hey Kelsier helped the southern scadrial when Sazed left that place to die" then again Kelsier probably doesn't even know him saving the southern pole was just one of Sazed's favored possibilities. Edited October 5, 2018 by goody153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emurii Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 I think Kelsier is just always looking for his next adventure, and isn't ready to quit yet. (Ironically, this strikes me as a very Hoid-like personality trait.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Emurii said: I think Kelsier is just always looking for his next adventure, and isn't ready to quit yet. (Ironically, this strikes me as a very Hoid-like personality trait.) It really is. The main reason Hoid and Kell don't get along is because they're too similar. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 He's looking for things to satisfy his hero complex, and if getting involved with the fight between shards is one way, he'll get in there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tglassy Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 In reality, as narcissistic as Kelsior is, his actual focus is on protecting those who can't protect themselves. He's the Scadrial equivalent of a Windrunner. He's Kaladin, he just learned how to smile instead of brood. He's just completely ok with killing people to do it. While he did take down a government, he didn't do it because he hates governments. He did it because the government was corrupt and abusive. Kel is very noble, in his way. I think he would be trying to help people who can't help themselves, in any way he could. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Tglassy said: In reality, as narcissistic as Kelsior is, his actual focus is on protecting those who can't protect themselves. He's the Scadrial equivalent of a Windrunner. He's Kaladin, he just learned how to smile instead of brood. He's just completely ok with killing people to do it. While he did take down a government, he didn't do it because he hates governments. He did it because the government was corrupt and abusive. Kel is very noble, in his way. I think he would be trying to help people who can't help themselves, in any way he could. I mean kind of, but also he's not exactly the best person all around, or the most informed. See below: Quote Questioner At one point, you mentioned that Kelsier scared you. Could you talk a little more about why? Brandon Sanderson So, Kelsier is one of my favorite characters. I like them all, whoever I'm writing, right? But one of the things that makes Kelsier tick is (and this was my original pitch for him to myself) in another story, he'd be the villain. Kelsier has this hard edge to him. He's one of those people that, when channeled wrong, he becomes the best and most interesting villain. But he happened to be in a situation that pushed him the other direction, and he became a hero. But he still has that edge to him. And there is a darkness to Kelseir that doesn't exist in most of the heroes in my books. Someone like Kaladin has a darkness to him, too, but a darkness that they're fighting against. Whereas Kelsier has embraced this darkness. It is part of what makes him him. So, Kelsier is a little frightening to me as a writer, just because he's a character that I can't guarantee will make good decisions. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 He's a sociopath. (Brandon uses the word psychopath, but that's just a subset of sociopathy anyway) Whatever his goals are, they're going to serve him first and others second. Quote i_are_pant 1. Which of your protagonist characters do you dislike the most as a person? Taking into account that you know all of their inner secrets and motivations.2. On the flip side. Which of your antagonists do you connect with the most? The Lord Ruler seems an obvious choice as he was misunderstood by everybody for so long. But still, I'm curious. Brandon Sanderson This is a tough one, as while I'm writing, I HAVE to like everyone. However, the most disturbing of them is probably Kelsier. He's a psychopath--meaning the actual, technical term. Lack of empathy, egotism, lack of fear. If his life had gone differently, he could have been a very, very evil dude. Elend. I see myself as an idealist like him. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Tglassy said: In reality, as narcissistic as Kelsior is, his actual focus is on protecting those who can't protect themselves. He's the Scadrial equivalent of a Windrunner. He's Kaladin, he just learned how to smile instead of brood. He's just completely ok with killing people to do it. While he did take down a government, he didn't do it because he hates governments. He did it because the government was corrupt and abusive. Kel is very noble, in his way. I think he would be trying to help people who can't help themselves, in any way he could. Not at all. Kelsier took down the Final Empire because he was angry that Rashek had killed Mare, because he hated the nobles with a passion, and because doing so would fuel his narcissistic and hero complex tendencies. Helping the skaa was an additional benefit to this, as well as having the rebellion through Yomen enable him. At the end of the day, his hatred for the nobles far out-weighs any empathy for the skaa's plight. This line from The Final Empire most strongly displays that he doesn't care about skaa at all. Quote “These were evil men, Vin,” [Kelsier] said. “Every skaa knows in his heart that it is the greatest of crimes to take up arms in defense of the Final Empire.” - The Final Empire These are not the words of someone who cares about skaa at all. These are the words of someone who hates the nobles, and views anyone actively supporting them as fair game. If he were a "Scadrial equivalent of a Windrunner" he would be doing what is right and trying to help these guards find better means of livelihood. Instead he's killing them because the only means of livelihood is defending noble keeps where they could be killed by misting assassins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Additional to the point is that how Vin and Kelsier differs in their approach to eliminating a skaa guard for some noble/TLR. Kelsier just kills them. Vin on the other hand convinced the guard to stand down and take the leave as it is not worth it. That guard became captain goradel. Vin does truly care about the people and alot more windrunnery than Kelsier is. Besides if you think about it Kelsier would make a great vessel for Odium or Ambition. That says something about him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) On 5.10.2018 at 4:02 PM, animalia said: He’s seen the slow march of time, BUT without the ability of something like history books of the ascended mindset of a shard to give him perspective on how things havr slowly, but surely, changed. To him it might seem like humans keep repeating the same old dumb mistakes. I used to think that Kelsier found his purpose in learning more about the Cosmere and became a worldhopper. This would have agreed with both Harmony's and Marsh's hints that they haven't talked to him for a long time - and it isn't like spiked Kelsier could have shut out Harmony. Now that we know from a WoB that this is not the case, I think that he is sitting in a Duralumin-enhanced Cadmium bubble for some reason. That would explain his being incommunicado to the resident deity and completely passive during the "Alloy" sequence so far. And the bubble is about to come down, because another WoB mentions a small role for him in "The Last Metal". Edited October 11, 2018 by Isilel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmnsquirtle Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 5:34 AM, Isilel said: I used to think that Kelsier found his purpose in learning more about the Cosmere and became a worldhopper. This would have agreed with both Harmony's and Marsh's hints that they haven't talked to him for a long time - and it isn't like spiked Kelsier could have shut out Harmony. Now that we know from a WoB that this is not the case, I think that he is sitting in a Duralumin-enhanced Cadmium bubble for some reason. That would explain his being incommunicado to the resident deity and completely passive during the "Alloy" sequence so far. And the bubble is about to come down, because another WoB mentions a small role for him in "The Last Metal". To be fair, Wax&Wayne hasn't yet touched on anything that big. The biggest thing they've got is a cultural first contact, which to be fair is pretty tame compared to the things that Kelsier has seen. Also, it's entirely possible that Kelsier doesn't have enough spikes to be controlled. We only know of a single spike, but I could have sworn that there was a thread somewhere that posited that four was the minimum number for control... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, tmnsquirtle said: Also, it's entirely possible that Kelsier doesn't have enough spikes to be controlled. We only know of a single spike, but I could have sworn that there was a thread somewhere that posited that four was the minimum number for control... With what Kelsier knows if hemalurgy I'm sure he's below the threshold. And the four spike limit isn't a hypothesis, it's canon from the text. Koloss are human and can be controlled with four spikes, and then we have this from Suit. Quote “The trouble with Hemalurgy is in its limitations,” he said. “If you kill a man and steal his Metallic abilities, the resulting gift to you is weakened. Did you know that? What’s more, if you spike yourself too much, you become subject to Harmony’s … interference. Indeed, by the stories, you might open yourself to the interference of any idiot Soother or Rioter with enough talent.” He shook his head. “I am limited to three boons, even if we have discovered how to make someone else be weak, while we gain the benefit.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tglassy Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 "make someone else weak while we gain the benefit"... That sounds an awful lot like they've discovered how to steel a person's powers with Hemalurgy while not killing them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Tglassy said: "make someone else weak while we gain the benefit"... That sounds an awful lot like they've discovered how to steel a person's powers with Hemalurgy while not killing them... Or unkeyed metalminds where someone else stores and they use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tglassy Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Oh, well, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmnsquirtle Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 4:11 PM, Calderis said: And the four spike limit isn't a hypothesis, it's canon from the text. Koloss are human and can be controlled with four spikes, and then we have this from Suit. I suppose that kandra fall into the 'not human' category, which makes them an exception to the rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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