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Theory: The Seventeenth Shard are separate


Chaos

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The way Hoid refers to the Seventeenth Shard certainly doesn't imply to me that he was ever a part of them at all, or even had all that much to do with them other than the fact that they're trying to find him for some reason. He speaks of them in almost a dismissive or diminutive way, as though he either doesn't take them very seriously, or just doesn't consider them a very big threat. They seem to be more of an annoyance to him than anything else, though he seemed to enjoy sending them on a false trail.

What's interesting to me, however, is how he mentioned that the Seventeenth Shard were off chasing him somewhere else, yet here we find natives of Sel (possibly Elantrians, or at the very least, one Dula and two characters of unknown ethnicity and origin) on Scadrial and hunting Hoid down.

There are a couple options for this: either Hoid was wrong and Seventeenth Shard didn't follow his trail, the trail did take them to Roshar (but to the wrong place), or the Dula's group are an entirely separate party from 17th Shard altogether.

Going back to the original point of this thread though, I think it's pretty clear that whatever the Seventeenth Shard wants with Hoid, they are neither Shardholders, nor was Hoid ever a part of their group.

What's more, I would say it's also pretty clear that the 17th shard doesn't have all the information either.  People not knowing things on both sides-an interesting dilemma.

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I just had a silly thought...

Our own collective group (forum) is called 17th Shard.

There are many of us who are looking to find out what Hoid is up to.

We can travel between the worlds (by reading about them).

We're all certainly younger than Hoid (other than Andrew, seeing as he's undead. Hard to know how long that guy's been around :P).

[dramatic reverb] Maybe we're the Seventeenth Shard that (presumably) Hoid was referring to in his letter!! [/dramatic reverb]

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I don't think so, unless someone has been saying things to Brandon.

Old friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.

I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.

Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.

You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completely.

Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:

Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.

He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.

One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.

In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.

You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.

Neither point makes the things I have written to you untrue.

I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.

If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.

For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.

I do so now.

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'Twas only a joke. :P

But my contemplating of said joke has raised another question in my mind.

Might the Seventeenth Shard have more than just one goal/purpose? And if they do, what might those other goals be?

Definitely too early in the game to answer either of those questions definitively, but could be fun to speculate on.

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'Twas only a joke. :P

But my contemplating of said joke has raised another question in my mind.

Might the Seventeenth Shard have more than just one goal/purpose? And if they do, what might those other goals be?

Definitely too early in the game to answer either of those questions definitively, but could be fun to speculate on.

I apologize, I have been known among my friends as taking things too literally.

If 17th Shard has more than one goal, there is also the possibility that 17th Shard isn't unified.

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It's a letter from Hoid to Chaos! Chaos, are you an old reptile? And why are you mad at Hoid?

Wow, I nearly did a spit-take there.

That Hoid, he's just so elusive! And he didn't come to my birthday party. Hunting Rayse is no excuse not to come to an old friend's birthday, Midius. What a turd.

And I have a policy of nonintervention because I want Brandon to continue writing awesome books, obviously.

I think I can get behind this theory :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's a letter from Hoid to Chaos! Chaos, are you an old reptile? And why are you mad at Hoid?

wait...that would mean Chaos is essentially immortal...The implications are terrifying ;D

We already knew this. He's the Lord Ruler of the forums.

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And he was Hero of Ages for a while, too. Though we ousted him, so I'm not sure if the immortality from that's gone now.....

I don't know what you're talking about. I regained that power. Or stole it back. Whatever.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Didn't I become Hoid? I still might be in fact.... I don't think I ever got impeached.

Edit-

For those confused, all these titles are from TWG, look here for the discussions.

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7193.0

You're Hoid, that's for sure.

Either way, I'm the Lord Ruler here, so nyah.

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  • 5 months later...

He said that for now, they are in chronological order. We've skipped books, however, so eventually we will fill in the gaps, and they won't be chronological any longer.

As Alloy of Law comes out this November, I suspect it's the end of the chronological order as it's 300 years after the original Mistborn trilogy.

Given that Sanderson plans to publish two books in between each Stormlight book,* I wonder if we'll see the actions in those books happen contiguously with the Stormlight story and even have events in one series effect events in another.

*If memory serves...

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Given that Sanderson plans to publish two books in between each Stormlight book,* I wonder if we'll see the actions in those books happen contiguously with the Stormlight story and even have events in one series effect events in another.

*If memory serves...

Sadly, memory serves a dark, and dare I say, Ruinous master...

It's two stormlight, then one of something else, two stormlight, one of something else, and so forth.

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Sadly, memory serves a dark, and dare I say, Ruinous master...

It's two stormlight, then one of something else, two stormlight, one of something else, and so forth.

Sometimes, tis wonderful to be wrong.

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I don't know, Chaos. It is true that some of the members of the Seventeenth Shard are obviously much, much younger than Hoid or the Person Being Addressed. But that doesn't mean that the Person Being Addressed can't be a member, or even the founder/leader, of the Seventeenth Shard.

Afterall, assuming that the Seventeenth Shard is currently recruiting, they are certainly under no obligitation to only recruit people as old as their founder. And if the founder was immortal and the initial members were not, it would be pretty much a requirement that he'd be older than anyone else in the group.

I don't have Way of Kings on hand, but fortunately Hoid's letter is easy to find online. I'd like to direct your attention to a couple of sentences from it.

I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling of what to do with me should they actually catch me.

If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.

That bolded part implies a very strong connection between the Person Being Addressed and the Seventeenth Shard. It sounds as if he's the one giving them orders, not just a friend advising them.

Edited by Mad_Scientist
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