Kaladin and Adolin = Merlin and Author

[Necromancer]

The classic story of Merlin (sometimes called the original sword and sorcery story) has Merlin being a reluctant servant to Authur, a pompous, arrogant prince who can fight better than just about any warrior in Camelot. Merlin is a Magician, stronger than just about anyone, but hides it from Arthur. As the story goes on, Merlin begins to see Authur for who he is beyond the arrogance, he sees a real hero.

 

Kaladin and Adolin could be described the same way, can't they? Kaladin is Adolin's bodyguard, is far superior in skill to most people, hides his powers from Adolin, and eventually respects him. Adolin is a prince and has huge flaws at face value, but is a respectable man once he is known. Do you think this was done on purpose? 

 

Edit: Spelled Authur wrong in the title like a noob.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Necromancer

[Kobold King]

Possibly, though I've personally never encountered the idea of Merlin being a "reluctant servant". Remember, he engineered the circumstances that led to Arthur's kingship, right?

I do think there's a pretty cool inverse "Sword in the Stone" motif in the Prelude, when the Heralds stab their Honorblades into the rock. Instead of pulling out a sword to become king, like Arthur did, the Heralds give up their status by planting their swords into stone.

[king of nowhere]

I think there's only so much mythology humans can convceive before some bits start resembling each other. I'd go for "coincidence"

[RShara]

Erm, do you mean ARTHUR?   Author is rather a different word completely.

 

I don't think there's a lot of resemblance.  I've read pretty much all of the Arthurian literature out there, and Merlin is always a willing (or at least consenting) participant to events.  He engineered Arthur's birth and protection as a child, led him to the Sword in the Stone, helped him get Excalibur.  And I don't think he was ever much of a warrior.

 

Adolin didn't need to go into hiding as a child, was raised by his mother and father, has a brother, and never had his birthright questioned, nor did he need to prove it.

 

If anything, there might be a slight Arthur/Lancelot/Guinevere resemblance, with Adolin and Kaladin both getting interested in Shallan; Adolin being Arthur as heir to a title, honored, kind, and brave; Kaladin being Lancelot with his intensity and insane combat skills.

[Necromancer]

Erm, do you mean ARTHUR?   Author is rather a different word completely.

 

I don't think there's a lot of resemblance.  I've read pretty much all of the Arthurian literature out there, and Merlin is always a willing (or at least consenting) participant to events.  He engineered Arthur's birth and protection as a child, led him to the Sword in the Stone, helped him get Excalibur.  And I don't think he was ever much of a warrior.

 

Adolin didn't need to go into hiding as a child, was raised by his mother and father, has a brother, and never had his birthright questioned, nor did he need to prove it.

 

If anything, there might be a slight Arthur/Lancelot/Guinevere resemblance, with Adolin and Kaladin both getting interested in Shallan; Adolin being Arthur as heir to a title, honored, kind, and brave; Kaladin being Lancelot with his intensity and insane combat skills.

 

Edited in the mistake 10 minutes before your post (the sneakiness   )

 

Anyway, your right that not everything matches, but the very core elements do. Merlin may not have been a warrior, but he had enough talent to be. Great idea with the Lancelot and Kaladin similarities though, it actually does make a bit more sense.

 

 

I think there's only so much mythology humans can convceive before some bits start resembling each other. I'd go for "coincidence"

 

Perhaps... but there are quite a few similarities. A writer like Brandon Sanderson doubtlessly read the old stories.

 

Possibly, though I've personally never encountered the idea of Merlin being a "reluctant servant". Remember, he engineered the circumstances that led to Arthur's kingship, right?

I do think there's a pretty cool inverse "Sword in the Stone" motif in the Prelude, when the Heralds stab their Honorblades into the rock. Instead of pulling out a sword to become king, like Arthur did, the Heralds give up their status by planting their swords into stone.

 

Yeah, maybe not, I'm not so sure anymore after being beat down with a stick. And not Shallan's stick, but a big stick of truth. 

 

Great idea with the inverse swords thing though.

[Kasimir]

To add to what RShara said: in most of the stories, Merlin ends up playing a role as Arthur's counsellor, and there's a vestige of mentorship to that role, rather than as peers or as servant. I suspect you might be referring to a possible parallel with BBC Merlin, rather than the classic Arthurian mythos.

[RShara]

If Adolin manages to do that spoilerything with his Shardblade, then it'd be very similar to pulling the Sword from the Stone, too.

 

(Also, it still says Author in the title for me).

Edited April 16, 2014 by RShara

[Sphinx]

The classic story of Merlin (sometimes called the original sword and sorcery story) has Merlin being a reluctant servant to Authur, a pompous, arrogant prince who can fight better than just about any warrior in Camelot. Merlin is a Magician, stronger than just about anyone, but hides it from Arthur. As the story goes on, Merlin begins to see Authur for who he is beyond the arrogance, he sees a real hero.

 

Err, which classic story of Merlin are you referring to? the crazy oracle from the Welsh legends? Geoffrey of Monmouth's? The Vulgate Cycle? Thomas Malory's? You seem to be conflating the TV series Merlin with the classical Merlin story. From what I know of the show (I haven't watched it), while borrowing some imagery, names and themes from the arthurian tradition, the result is incredibly different. Not least of which because in most classical portrayals Arthur tends to either be portrayed already mature and noble despite his mistaken incest, or else because Arthur's brought up as a foster child with no knowledge of his true parents and somewhat in Kai's shadow.

 

(There is a tradition of Merlin as warrior being conflated with Ambrosius Aurelianus, but that depiction involves him being very much a mentor figure and not at all a reluctant servant to an arrogant brat)

Edited April 16, 2014 by Sphinx

[RShara]

Yeah every TV/Film adaptation of the Arthurian lore tends to turn out pretty much with the names the same, and with vague situational resemblances, but everything else made up by the screenwriters.  I stopped watching those because they just made me want to cry

[Sphinx]

It can be interesting to see how people choose to interpret or deconstruct things, but I'll admit it gets on my nerves when people claim to be trying to recreate a historical arthur and then blatantly contradict history or when people borrow randomly from different arthurian traditions without much consistency. I can also get a bit judgey depending on how people handle the Arthur-Guinevere-Lancelot/Bedwyr love triangle. Or Lancelot period.

 

Out of random curiosity, (and apologies to the OP for derailing) have you read any of Rosemary Sutcliff or Gillian Bradshaw's arthurian works?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Sphinx

[11thorderknight]

I think there's only so much mythology humans can convceive before some bits start resembling each other. I'd go for "coincidence"

 

I forget the author's name, but there was a book written a long time ago called "Hero with a thousand faces" that explores the common themes in all human myths/legends/stories/religions across all cultures and shows that they're all basically very very similar. That definitely extends to the sci-fi/fantasy genre. It's why everyone has shapechanging dragons, and immortal elves, and magic swords, and magical-mentors-that-disappear/die-at-critical-juncture-to-allow-main-character-to-grow-but-then-come-back....

[Kasimir]

Sphinx:

Quote

(There is a tradition of Merlin as warrior being conflated with Ambrosius Aurelianus, but that depiction involves him being very much a mentor figure and not at all a reluctant servant to an arrogant brat)

Mind giving me a name or two to look up? I haven't seen that and now I'm interested

[Sphinx]

To get more detailed (mind you, I may be misremembering some things), the story about Merlin and the collapsing tower and the dragons which is usually associated with him and the origin of his half-demon birth in it's earliest known written form was associated with Ambrosius Aurelianus  (Gildas cites him as a fifth century Roman-Briton who won a major battle against the saxons) in Nennius's Historia Brittonum. Geoffrey of Monmouth seems to have combined this legend with the welsh prophet Myrddin as Ambrosius (or Emrys) Merlin. To make things more confusing, Geoffrey also has Aurelius Ambrosius as Uther Pendragon's brother, who becomes friends with Merlin.

 

This conflation of two legends and the subsequent adaptations and reinventions in the more traditional romantic legends has led to modern reinterpretations that are trying to get back to a pseudo-historical Arthur treating Merlin in a number of ways. Rosemary Sutcliff's Sword at Sunset (which I absolutely recommend) doesn't have Merlin at all, in favour of Ambrosius, Arthur's uncle/mentor figure. Gillian Bradshaw's "Down the Long Wind" trilogy that starts with Hawk of May brings in more Welsh legends in the form of Taliesin, who sort of pops in and out of the books, primarily as a prophet/mentor/good advice dispenser but it's made clear that he is also a more than capable warrior. I don't think Aurelius features at all. Elizabeth Wein gets into some inventive interpretation of the Aurelius/Pendragon/Constans dynasty in The Winter Prince, I don't really remember how (or if) she treats Merlin explicitly, because it has been a decade or so since I've read that; I remember enjoying it at the time.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Sphinx

[Elerubard]

I forget the author's name, but there was a book written a long time ago called "Hero with a thousand faces" that explores the common themes in all human myths/legends/stories/religions across all cultures and shows that they're all basically very very similar. That definitely extends to the sci-fi/fantasy genre. It's why everyone has shapechanging dragons, and immortal elves, and magic swords, and magical-mentors-that-disappear/die-at-critical-juncture-to-allow-main-character-to-grow-but-then-come-back....

Hero With a Thousand Faces By Joseph Campell. Its one of the definative works on comparative mythology.

[AerionBFII]

I always thought of Kaladin and Adolin as the second coming or new generation of Gavilar and Dalinar...