Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 This has been bugging me for a long time. I believe that when Szeth released Jezrien's honorblade he should have lost the surges of the Order of Windrunners, as according to Sylphrena, "He's nothing without the sword," and "He is no longer the weapon he once was." (Chapter 86 of Words of Radiance) Anyway, when Szeth is restored by Nalan, he possesses Nightblood, which as far as I know grants access to no surges, he has bonded no spren I can find any mention of, and he should not possess any residual powers from using the honorblade that I can think of. Yet when he is serving his squireship at the purelake, he uses lashings. I suppose it is possible for a knight radiant to share his powers with those near him, Kaladin for example, so this could explain those actions. However, these powers apparently fade when the "giver" of these surges is no longer near the "recipient," and Szeth uses the lashings at the Battle of Thaylen Field when, as far as I can tell, nobody of the Order of Skybreakers is present. Furthermore, he continues on the swear the first through fourth ideals of the Skybreakers without bonding any spren I can think of. I can understand the possibility that he is swearing these without a spren and simply intends to take them to heart, and that he may have to reswear them if he receives a spren, but according to coppermind.net a budding skybreaker must bond a highspren before swearing the third oath, allowing him the surge of division. The fact that Szeth has no spren, and has no other way of obtaining the surge of gravitation I can think of, confuses me as to why he can use the surge of gravitation at the Battle of Thaylen Field. If anyone has a decent explanation for this, I would be very grateful, as I am unable to find one as of yet. It would also be helpful to know if he has access to the surge of division, as I can find no record of him using said surge. I currently believe he doesn't, but would be grateful for any proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 What I remeber, and this includes Oathbringer Spoilers Spoiler Szeth was a Skybreaker squire, along with others at the purelake. Nale stopped Szeth from swearing the third ideal then and there, but there were a few Highspren watching. Sometime between there and Thaylen City, Szeth bonded one of those spren, and swore himself to Dalinar. He had a highspren at this point, but it is vaugely mentioned in the purelake and Szeth scenes afterwards. He kind of swore the Fourth Ideal, but needs permission from Dalinar to fully. He can use Division but hasn't Hope this clears it up. If not, try to get a mod to move this to the cosmere Q&A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy_Slider Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Keep in mind that at the Battle of Thaylen Field, Nale was hovering in the sky watching the entire time and he would probably count as a master Radiant. He does actually bond a spren at this point as well, it just hasn't come out yet. Possibly scared of the insane super-sword that loves to eat Investiture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 @Kaladin_The_Stormblessed I moved your topic to the right forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 21/8/2018 at 7:13 AM, Slimy_Slider said: Keep in mind that at the Battle of Thaylen Field, Nale was hovering in the sky watching the entire time and he would probably count as a master Radiant. He does actually bond a spren at this point as well, it just hasn't come out yet. Possibly scared of the insane super-sword that loves to eat Investiture. Nale isn't the one Szeth was a squire for. But simply Szeth was already a Skybreaker there and not a mere squire at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skryter Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 (edited) So we have to remember that Szeth was made Truthless for warning that the voidbringers were returning. How did he come by this information? He was already beginning to bond a highspren (in some capacity). Quote Warren looked back to him. "You shall soon have your spren gauging on this performance". "Not soon," Szeth said. "Right now. I shall say the third ideal this night, choosing to follow the law. I-" Szeth is so confident that he can swear the third ideal here because he's already begun bonding the "hidden spren". This is evidenced after he finally swears the third ideal after the Battle of Thaylen Field. Quote "He felt a surge of something. Approval? From the hidden spren who only rarely showed itself to him, even still." So Szeth was able to access gravitation at Thaylen Field because he'd already started bonding the hidden spren; or it was an oversight on Brandons part. Also Szeth has only sworn up to the third ideal. Edited August 26, 2018 by Skryter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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