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Spheres and Mist


Ixthos

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In Stormlight, cognitive objects - at least from the point of view of people looking into it, moving, or stuck there - are made of crystal spheres, and those spheres can be coerced into linking together to form an object in the cognitive realm that matches the shape of the seed sphere. On Roshar, souls look like little flames, and one can't see what the person is doing.

On Scadrial, cognitive realm objects - at least from the point of view of a cognitive shadow - are made of mist, and normally already are in the shape of the physical object they are a part of, though they can be coerced into being contracted into a small bundle, ready to be used later, as well as coerced into manifesting their property in the cognitive realm. On Scadrial, Kelsier was able to see what was happening in the physical world through the actions of the misty objects and people. With one exception.

 

There are several similarities between the two - technically three - areas we have seen, namely Roshar's area, Scadrial's, and the area near the boarder of Scadrial's. They all have the general principle of solid water and a sea of cognitive manifestations for objects in the physical world. They all have plants growing on water in the physical world, and those plants seem to be native to the region in question, with mist for Scadrial, and Roshar and even Scadrial's boarder having their plants reflect the region they are from. They both have a dark sky and a cold sun, and the larger bodies of water represents an expanse that links to space, and life living under the water is mapped to the surface of the stone the water manifests as. And the souls of fish and plants form as small glows on the surface of the stone.

 

Now this last part is fascinating to me. The differences between Roshar and Scadrial are a main issue, namely why would they be so different? Why can you see partially into the physical on one and not the other? Maybe it was because Kelsier is dead and so as a spren of sorts he can see something which someone visiting Scadrial in the cognitive realm couldn't? But then what about the fish later, when he travels further out? As he explores, moving further from Scadrial though still bound to it he sees the souls of sea creatures and plants above the water, and no description is given of their shape, but the little manifestations are described as ... well, small, though he knows that some of them are large creatures underwater. So the fish seem different to the people he saw

So does that mean that Kelsier's viewpoint would be the same as someone who was still alive? When he spoke to Spook at the end, when Spook was spiked and they started their mission he could see Spook and interact with him, touching him with Spook seeing him interact with him. Would that be the same if both went to Roshar?

Actually ... would objects change based on where they are, or where they originally came from always being important, until enough people think of them as being part of the new planet?

Each region, each world, seems to manifest differently, and I suspect that the nature of the physical objects in other worlds will also reflect that. A planet with fire as something important would probably have everything made of fire, and one with stone would have objects made of stone. Crystal is probably important to Roshar as it holds stormlight, mist on Scadrial because mists are how the power is manifested at night, with metal being unknown in importance across worlds, but glowing on Scadrial. Would cognitive realm water-growing plants and physical objects look like stone on Sel? But what about the SHAPE? What about the key difference between Scadrial and Roshar?

So there are a few possibilities

  • Scadrial is the exception - most worlds have it so that you can't see the physical world through the cognitive, and objects normally are a small structure that you have to touch to physically see
  • Roshar is the exception - most worlds the objects in the cognitive realm look like and move relative to the objects in the physical world, making life very strange if the object's cognitive component is moved elsewhere and the other cognitive components interact with something that doesn't look like it is there
  • Neither is an exception - some worlds are similar to Scadrial, some to Roshar, and the space in between is unique, or more closely matches one or the other, maybe based on which areas it is between
  • Both are an exception - most worlds are different even to this, with maybe a possible combination with living objects seeming like small glows and objects being solid, or objects being small bundles and life fully present
  • The point of view of a Cognitive shadow or spren would be different, and the two are similar, so on Scadrial someone alive would only see small balls of mist?

Can anyone else think of a possibility? Also, how do you think bacteria and microscopic life manifest? Are they seen as part of the objects they are on, or the water they live in?

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I don't know, but thank you for wondering aloud, as it were, because I have been wondering the exact same thing!

I have the vague sense that the Rosharan Cognitive/Shadesmar is the odd one out, but only because of the way a couple of WoBs have been worded. Which could very easily mean nothing at all. But, yeah, basically everything you listed has crossed my mind too. O.o

Sorta Secret History Spoiler 

Spoiler

We have a brief description of one other realm, too, in the form of another WoB that suggests that the Selish Cognitive Realm looks like a storm of dense plasma-like investiture that behaves like a liquid. But that doesn't help much, since it is just describing how the Dor is squished into the one realm, and not anything else.

 

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This might be one of my biggest questions about the current cosmere.

Also something to add to the list (SH spoilers):

Spoiler

Actually, now that I think about it, this is mostly a clarifying question, but when hoid visits the well of ascension in SH, he is travelling on a cognitive shadow because he would sink through the ground. Is that just because the ground in shadesmar around luthadel is 'ocean-like,' comparable to the ocean of spheres that is the CR on Roshar?

 

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I think the primary difference is the level of investiture. Everything is alive in Roshar's cognitive realm because their is so much loose investiture to soak up. On Scadrial there is very little loose investiture. Thing there are barely "alive". This makes the cognitive realm here very chill.
 

I can only imagine what Sel is like. You have two dead shards and investiture everywhere. The planet itself is gaining sentience. The cognitive realm their is probably insane.

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I'm fairly sure we can throw out Kelsier seeing things differently than those there physically. He interacts with three separate living people who all seem to be experiencing the same reality he is. 

Personally, I think every Cognitive Realm will be somewhat unique, barring common elements like the land/water inversion, and waters obsidian appearance. 

I don't think either is an exception. 

Edited by Calderis
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18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I'm fairly sure we can throw out Kelsier seeing things differently than those there physically. He interacts with three separate living people who all seem to be experiencing the same reality he is. 

Personally, I think every Cognitive Realm will be somewhat unique, barring common elements like the land/water inversion, and wagers obsidian appearance. 

I don't think either is an exception. 

I tend to agree here. The cognitive realm will likely differ due to levels of investiture, perceptions of sentient creatures on the planet, the planet itself, and the shards present. It will share similar threads with differing flavors.

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I agree with you all. I didn't think Kelsier was seeing a different version of reality but I did have to list it for completeness sake - after all, he is significantly different from the other people who have interacted with the Cognitive realm, so it would either be because of his point of view or the nature of the environment he was in being different to Roshar's. 

It does make me wonder about the full significance of perception's shaping of the Cognitive realm - what do the people and species on Roshar see on Roshar that makes objects able to link together in the cognitive realm, and what makes Scadrial's so closely reflect the physical? There has to be some reason for those differences - and what would happen if someone on Roshar is spiked and a spren were to talk to them - would the spren see more closely into the physical realm through that person, as Kelsier was able to talk to Spook and interact with him?

I think some properties of the Cognitive realm do make sense, such as water being one solid thing, and though weather might make seas and oceans move and change, to the human mind it is both a boarder and a passage, a way to get to distant shores. The sky is blue, water is as well, and in the distance, on the horizon, they combine, so the expanse of water and the expanse of sky become a single path into space. Its the other properties that are strange :-)

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I've also wondered the same thing. But no one else seems to have touched on one major difference between Scadrial and Roshar. We also need to remember that Scadrial was made post shattering by Preservation and Ruin. Roshar was made during the time of Adonalsium and thus the cognitive realm associated with it. That's my theory as possible reason why Kelsier can see into the physical realm and those in the Cognitive Realm connected to Roshar cannot. Though its clearly more complicated than just this one reason.

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4 minutes ago, Johhny_Eastland said:

I've also wondered the same thing. But no one else seems to have touched on one major difference between Scadrial and Roshar. We also need to remember that Scadrial was made post shattering by Preservation and Ruin. Roshar was made during the time of Adonalsium and thus the cognitive realm associated with it. That's my theory as possible reason why Kelsier can see into the physical realm and those in the Cognitive Realm connected to Roshar cannot. Though its clearly more complicated than just this one reason.

My guess is investiture saturation and sentient thought causes the cognitive realm in Roshar to be so realized that it is essentially its own place. On Roshar everything is seen as being alive because of spren thus the cognitive side becomes more alive because it is thought of as such. The cognitive realm is known to practically no one on Scadrial. Only a few very close objects are personified much at all. With the very little investiture the cognitive realm would match Scadrial nearly exactly with the exception that low populated areas would likely be reduced in the cognitive realm.

We know Silverlight can study even planets without perpendicularities from the Cognitive realm. I believe this means that the less investiture the more similar the cognitive aspect is to the real planet. Roshar would be considered an oddball world because it is nearly impossible to study the planet via the Cognitive realm. I can't even imagine what it would look like from Sel.

If my theory is correct transformation on planets without more realized cognitive realms should be easier and require less investiture as the object does not have as realized of a cognitive aspect.

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