Battar - Agent of Cultivation?

[Toaster Retribution]

At the end of Oathbringer, Mr T reveals his suspicions regarding the ardent Dova to Dalinar. He believes that she is the Herald Battar, and says that she warned him of a coming Desolation. She is currently working in Mr Ts hospitals, gathering Death Rattles. 

There are several theories about Mr T and the Diagram being of Cultivation. I think it seems likely, considering that T has been to the Nightwatcher, and that we know that Cultivation has interacted with other visitors than Dalinar Kholin. 

Thus, I subscribe to the idea that the Diagram is of Cultivation. And that is why I think that Battar is as well. Why else would she go to Mr T and tell him off a Desolation, and then settle in a basement to watch people as they die. Sure, she is mad, but I feel like it is a stretch to assume that she is randomly searching out a king and then randomly helps him commit crimes against humanity, because she is mad. There has to be some kind of logic, if flawed, just like there is to Nales behavior. That she is controlled by, or actively working with Cultivation, is one good reason to do it. 

[Calderis]

If Dova is indeed Battar, then I would question this. As Battar specifically, the inversion of traits that have been discussed in the Heralds should make illogical action normal for her. 

Personally, I just think to lied to Dalinar. He didn't share anything about the Diagram and needed a reason to justify his actions. 

[Toaster Retribution]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

If Dova is indeed Battar, then I would question this. As Battar specifically, the inversion of traits that have been discussed in the Heralds should make illogical action normal for her. 

Personally, I just think to lied to Dalinar. He didn't share anything about the Diagram and needed a reason to justify his actions. 

The inversion isn’t straight out confirmed though, and it does take wierd shapes. Ash, for example, isn’t really non-creative or dishonest. She just breaks art of herself. Nale is incredibly confident, to the degree that he refuses to accept a new Desolation after seeing Voidbringers. 

I doubt King T lied to Dalinar. It seems like a pretty random lie to pull, and, from a writing standpoint, I feel like it is something Brandon wouldn’t do. King T is a pretty reliable source lore-wise, and seemingly reveal the hidden idetity of a Herald during the final pages of one book, from a reliable source, and then go ”nah, he lied” in the next book, seems like a wierd decision to make. 

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The inversion isn’t straight out confirmed though, and it does take wierd shapes. Ash, for example, isn’t really non-creative or dishonest. She just breaks art of herself. Nale is incredibly confident, to the degree that he refuses to accept a new Desolation after seeing Voidbringers. 

It's not confirmed, but even in the example you gave I think it holds. Ash is is destructive, opposed to creative. And I think all of the Heralds are lying to themselves which would cover the honesty thing. If Shallan is any example the "Honestly" attribute is supposed to be self honesty. 

Nale is not confident. He's said flat out he has no faith in his own judgment. He was holding to what Ishar told him. Not his own judgment. 

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt King T lied to Dalinar. It seems like a pretty random lie to pull, and, from a writing standpoint, I feel like it is something Brandon wouldn’t do. King T is a pretty reliable source lore-wise, and seemingly reveal the hidden idetity of a Herald during the final pages of one book, from a reliable source, and then go ”nah, he lied” in the next book, seems like a wierd decision to make. 

I'll just agree to disagree here. He had to tell Dalinar something to give a reason, because digging into Taravangian himself leads to the Diagram. 

T doesn't say "the Herald battar told us."

Quote

There’s a woman at Kharbranth,” he said. “She goes by the name Dova, but we think she is Battah’Elin. A Herald. She told us the Desolation was approaching.” He looked to Dalinar. “I had nothing to do with the death of your brother. But once I heard of what incredible things the assassin did, I sought him out. Years later, I located him, and gave him specific instructions.…”

The entire line is an explanation for why the desolation would come. 

It's meant to hide the Diagram. 

[Toaster Retribution]

@Calderis The point I tried to make is that the inversion isn’t really very simple. It isn’t straightforward. Not the direct opposite. Yes, Nale is not confident in himself, but his confidence in Ishar was extreme. And while he is unjust, it is not like he is breaking any laws or makes actual attempts at being unjust (hope that is the right english word). The madness of Battar wouldn’t be the direct opposite of wise and careful. At least, it doesn’t have to be. There is room for wierdness. 

And I agree in that we will just agree to disagree about wether or not Dova is Battar in the first place. 

[Subvisual Haze]

I'm inclined to believe Dova is Battar merely because we've had such a drought of information about the female Heralds (excluding Ash) that I'm happy to cling whatever minor morsels we're given.

Chana: ??? (blind guess of Liss seems popular, but no real evidence)

Vedel: ???

Palah: that one old Ardent Shallan spots in the Palanaeum? (would have been a blind guess if not for a WOB)

Battar: ??? Dova maybe?

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Chana: ??? (blind guess of Liss seems popular, but no real evidence)

This one predates this WoP 

Quote

Wetlander

Speaking of the other Prologues… I have a looney theory that the assassin Liss is actually the Herald Chana in disguise.

Peter Ahlstrom

Chanaranach has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books.

source

And is mainly going off the inversion idea, because the traits "brave and obedient" are interesting for an assassin. 

8 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Palah: that one old Ardent Shallan spots in the Palanaeum? (would have been a blind guess if not for a WOB)

This one I still question. The WoB is there in Arcanum... But we've been trying to get the picture of the signed book it's from since Arcanum launched. 

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Palah: that one old Ardent Shallan spots in the Palanaeum? (would have been a blind guess if not for a WOB)

This one I still question. The WoB is there in Arcanum... But we've been trying to get the picture of the signed book it's from since Arcanum launched. 

I think this one's pretty clear.  IIRC, Shallan thinks to herself that the ardent looks like a Herald due to the lighting when she first spots her.