The UnMade's Origin

[Quantus]

The Unmade are "twisted spren" created by odium, with the appearance of varying degrees of sentience, though the Name strongly implies that they were something else originally that Odium "unmade" and rebuilt for his purposes.  They also (occasionally) have fairly distinctive names, which planted a nagging seed in my mind that I want to explore.  So:

 

Do we know anything definitive about the origins of the UnMade?  Is is possible that the variance we've seen is because they where made from more than one base species?  And if so, is there any reason he couldnt have gotten Yolen Natives (Dragons and/or Sho Del) for those base materials?

 

For what it's worth: this was sparked by me mistakenly thinking that "Uli Da" was typically hyphenated the same way several of the Unmade are, and I thought it could a really interesting late-SA reveal to discover that they were not native to Roshar at all but where part of an entourage that Odium carried with him.

[Angsos]

Someone, I forget who, has a theory that the UnMade based off the Heralds and the hyphens are how many times the Heralds broke. Seems as good a theory as any until we know more

[+Child of Hodor]

 

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Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)
#1 

Questioner

Are the Unmade the analogs to Heralds?

Brandon Sanderson

There is certainly something similar going on there. Be aware that it's not a one-to-one correlation, that they're not exactly the same. For instance: Many of the- the Unmade are referenced by Taravangian in this, and he uses a phrase for them, and that is correct, that's what they are.

 

Footnote: In the epigraph for WoR 81 the Diagram says "The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however."

 

 

 

We don't have much on their origins other than that they were "We were made, then unmade" from Sja-anat and we know they are currently Spren and intentional splinters of Odium. If Odium took a person and Unmade them into a being of pure investiture wouldn't that being be classified as a cognitive shadow? 

Now they could be like the Stormfather, who is both a spren and a cognitive shadow of Honor/Tanavast. Odium could have taken existing spren, a cognitive shadow of a person and a splinter of his own power and combined them all. 

 

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/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

#9 

WeiryWriter

Could you explain a little more about Cognitive shadows? When you first mentioned the name and gave the examples of Kelsier and the Shades from Threnody you kind of gave the impression that they were kind of like ghosts. But this past December at the Orem signing you mentioned that the Stormfather and the mist were also Cognitive shadows. The first makes sense to me, I had an [entire theory about that (although I argued he was specifically Tanavast’s and not Honor’s). The second however really doesn’t make sense to me, unless it was actually the mist spirit that is the shadow and that got missed in the report (it wasn’t verbatim), but even still Preservation is still alive at that point so how can he have a “ghost”? (Unless him sacrificing his mind to form Ruin’s prison counts as “death” in this situation?)

Brandon Sanderson

On the first question, I did not say the mists themselves were a cognitive shadow. That must have been a misunderstanding. The Stormfather totally is, though. Cognitive shadows are basically ghosts, which can take a lot of different forms in the Cosmere, but follow general rules.

 

 

 

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“

Our gods were born splinters of a soul,
Of one who seeks to take control,
Destroys all lands that he beholds, with spite.
They are his spren, his gift, his price.
But the nightforms speak of future life,
A challenged champion. A strife even he must requite.

”

–From the Listener Song of Secrets, final stanza^[14]

 

 

“They are the souls of those ancient. Those who gave of themselves to destroy. ^[15]”

 

I get confused as to who the Parshendi gods are, is it just the Unmade or is it also the Fused? It seems like it's both, but they aren't the same thing and that makes it hard to figure out their origins. The first quote above sounds like the Unmade, the second one sounds like the Fused. The second quote sounds like people that allowed Odium to unmake or change them. 

Ulim refers to the Fused as the Parshendi gods in OB interlude I-6 "Look, your gods need bodies"

[+Extesian]

I'm inclined to think they're either Nahel-bond spren from each 'order' except bondsmiths or they're extremely strong magic users from Ashyn. I'm not sure the timing fits on the first as I'm sure the Unmade were already around when the Nahrl bonding started though could still be superspren. The second works better with timing but because of that Taravangian quote i doubt it somewhat. 

And the Listener gods I think were definitely only the Fused. That poem can equally describe the fused as a cognitive shadow could be described as a splinter of a soul. 

[galendo]

The best theory I've seen on this topic is that originally there were 16 "god spren" on Roshar that were made by Adonalsium: the Stormfather (pre-Tanavast), the Nightwatcher (pre-Cultivation), the Sibling, Cusicech, the Unmade (pre-Odium), and 3 other spren we don't explicitly know about yet.

Then Odium shows up, and since his Shardic number is 9, he goes and corrupts 9 of the Adonalsium spren, making the Unmade.

[Quantus]

8 hours ago, galendo said:

The best theory I've seen on this topic is that originally there were 16 "god spren" on Roshar that were made by Adonalsium: the Stormfather (pre-Tanavast), the Nightwatcher (pre-Cultivation), the Sibling, Cusicech, the Unmade (pre-Odium), and 3 other spren we don't explicitly know about yet.

Then Odium shows up, and since his Shardic number is 9, he goes and corrupts 9 of the Adonalsium spren, making the Unmade.

Thats interesting!  Im not sure about the significance of 16 though, I thought that was significant due to the patterns/methods used for the Shattering itself, not something that was significant to Adonalsium directly? 

[ScavellTane]

It's because there's a WOB that says that the cosmere is 16 centric and since the Rosharan system has 16 planetary bodies. I figure Roshar was 16 centric pre-Shattering.

[Scion of the Mists]

On 8/13/2018 at 11:57 PM, galendo said:

The best theory I've seen on this topic is that originally there were 16 "god spren" on Roshar that were made by Adonalsium: the Stormfather (pre-Tanavast), the Nightwatcher (pre-Cultivation), the Sibling, Cusicech, the Unmade (pre-Odium), and 3 other spren we don't explicitly know about yet.

Then Odium shows up, and since his Shardic number is 9, he goes and corrupts 9 of the Adonalsium spren, making the Unmade.

Although it hasn't been confirmed directly, most of the evidence points toward the "special numbers" relating to planets/systems, not Shards (e.g. this WoB).  

Additionally, Cusicesh is "a level below" the Nightwatcher/Stormfather, so it would be strange to group them together.  

[MountainKing]

Unless the Sibling was splintered, and Cusicesh is one of the splinters

[galendo]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Although it hasn't been confirmed directly, most of the evidence points toward the "special numbers" relating to planets/systems, not Shards (e.g. this WoB).  

Additionally, Cusicesh is "a level below" the Nightwatcher/Stormfather, so it would be strange to group them together.  

Regarding whether numbers relate to Shards or planets, that question's still rather open.  Why would Braize be 9-centric when the rest of the Rosharan system is 10-centric, unless it has something to do with Odium?  My guess is that there's kind of a "default" number for a planet or planetary system but that a local Shard can override that number if he/she wishes.

Regarding Cusicesh being "below" the Nightwatcher/Stormfather:  He's below them now, but perhaps not in the past.  The Stormfather's been boosted by Honor, for certain, and it seems like the Nightwatcher's probably been built up by Cultivation in a similar though not identical way.  So they're on rather different levels now, but they might have all been on a similar scale before the Shards arrived.

[Mircana]

I recently reread all 3 books, and have become increasingly convinced that the unmade are what Odim does with splintered aspects of shards.

nergaoul is my prime example and I suspect was made when Odim splinted Dominon. Sja-anat could be related to devotion as she able to make spren turn to her side.

how many aspects have been splintered? and do the others nature match up with what we know of the unmade?  I would need help to answer these 

[Calderis]

51 minutes ago, Mircana said:

I recently reread all 3 books, and have become increasingly convinced that the unmade are what Odim does with splintered aspects of shards.

nergaoul is my prime example and I suspect was made when Odim splinted Dominon. Sja-anat could be related to devotion as she able to make spren turn to her side.

how many aspects have been splintered? and do the others nature match up with what we know of the unmade?  I would need help to answer these 

Odium has Splintered Four shard that we know of for sure. Dominion, Devotion, Ambition, and Honor. 

We currently know of six surviving, Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation, Endowment, Autonomy and Odium. 

We also know there are two shards that we don't have names for, that are whole. The shard that wants to hide and survive, and another unnamed shard that is not on a planet.

Odium obviously isn't going to Splinter himself. Plus the other five we know, and 2 others is 8 minimum whole shards. That leaves a maximum of 8 splintered shards of the 16. 

I don't think the Unmade could be created each from unique pieces of other shards he's splintered.