The confusing Essence of Spark

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth]

So. I read another topic about soul casting and an old question emerges.

 

How does soul casting fire work? From Shallan and Jasnahs trip to the backallies i think if you cast something into fire the volume that the previous object contained is now filled with flames.

It couldn't possibly turn the matter into Energy. Jasnah would be able to nuke the entire ardentia back to the tranquiline halls.

 

And how do you cast fire into something else? You can't touch it, can you?

What would you get? A Stone sculpture looking like petrified flames.

How do you imagine it?

 

[tmnsquirtle]

21 hours ago, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

So. I read another topic about soul casting and an old question emerges.

 

How does soul casting fire work? From Shallan and Jasnahs trip to the backallies i think if you cast something into fire the volume that the previous object contained is now filled with flames.

It couldn't possibly turn the matter into Energy. Jasnah would be able to nuke the entire ardentia back to the tranquiline halls.

Good question. I doubt that it is a perfect conversion from mass to energy; if I had to guess, soulcasting is essentially a two step conversion where you convert the substance to investiture, then convert that investiture to another form. Though, who knows if the 'volume' of the object and the amount of fire are equivalent?

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And how do you cast fire into something else? You can't touch it, can you?

What would you get? A Stone sculpture looking like petrified flames.

How do you imagine it?

We have seen Jasnah perform ranged soulcasting. But that is a pretty sweet mental image.

[Stormfather-in-Law]

You're right - going straight to fire should have enveloped several blocks at least for the weight of a human. I think things like this get fudged essentially so they aren't ridiculously overpowered. Even mass-to-mass conversion is highly iffy - transmuting stone to smoke in a closed tunnel should kill everyone in it from the sudden pressure shockwave.

[tmnsquirtle]

17 hours ago, Stormfather-in-Law said:

You're right - going straight to fire should have enveloped several blocks at least for the weight of a human. I think things like this get fudged essentially so they aren't ridiculously overpowered. Even mass-to-mass conversion is highly iffy - transmuting stone to smoke in a closed tunnel should kill everyone in it from the sudden pressure shockwave.

I wonder if there is something of a 'default density' of each material that you soulcast into. A massive boulder, mass-wise, equals a LOT of smoke, but obviously it doesn't become that much. So if there was a default density of smoke, no matter what you soulcast from, it would become (volume x density) smoke units. Same with rock, or blood, or anything else. This would explain the lack of devastating explosions that would accompany soulcasting. 
 

Now we just have to explain the issue of missing (or extra!) mass 

[Calderis]

I wish I could find the thread, but there is one that the mass conversion if the Boulder to smoke one the math was actually done for. 

It worked out to a pressure wave of all of 160 psi based on the average density of wood smoke. 

The rate at which the pressure would disappate would be very very fast, and not actually dangerous. 

That said, soulcasting varies on conservation of mass/volume and I think it's purely perception based. 

Soulcasting a solid to a solid maintains volume, because that's what people expect. Crossing states... Gets closer to conservatiom of mass, though I doubt it's perfect. 

Spark? The fire conversion was clearly volume, and then the flames died because they had no fuel.

Edit: found it. The OP thought it would work out to a massive explosion, and a few posts down @WireSegal has the full math Spoilered. And it works to 160 psi

Edited August 14, 2018 by Calderis

[MountainKing]

I wonder when you soulcast a flame of the substance just becomes a highly flammable object, I wonder what essence flames fall under

[Spoolofwhool]

10 hours ago, MountainKing said:

I wonder when you soulcast a flame of the substance just becomes a highly flammable object, I wonder what essence flames fall under

Essence of Spark. It's been described as turning the object into actual fire, and if you made it into a highly flammable object then it would still need an ignition source somehow, universally over the whole volume that burns quickly while releasing hardly far less energy than a substance of that nature would normally release.

[Stormfather-in-Law]

On 8/14/2018 at 11:43 AM, Calderis said:

I wish I could find the thread, but there is one that the mass conversion if the Boulder to smoke one the math was actually done for. 

It worked out to a pressure wave of all of 160 psi based on the average density of wood smoke. 

The rate at which the pressure would disappate would be very very fast, and not actually dangerous. 

That said, soulcasting varies on conservation of mass/volume and I think it's purely perception based. 

Soulcasting a solid to a solid maintains volume, because that's what people expect. Crossing states... Gets closer to conservatiom of mass, though I doubt it's perfect. 

Spark? The fire conversion was clearly volume, and then the flames died because they had no fuel.

Edit: found it. The OP thought it would work out to a massive explosion, and a few posts down @WireSegal has the full math Spoilered. And it works to 160 psi

I looked at the math and not only does it fail the gut test (my gut tells me it's wrong), the math is correct but the initial assumptions are wrong. First few lines:

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Givens: PV = nRT

Density of granite = 26.91 kg/m^3

Wrong given. Density of granite is 2691 kg/m^3. Someone can check my math but think about it: water is 1 kg/liter, or 1000 kg/m^3. Rock is denser.

So that calc is off by a factor of 100. There would be a big boom.

[Angsos]

@Stormfather-in-LawRock insulted by saying he dense

[Slimy_Slider]

The only way I could see that wouldn't result in a massive explosion is that the missing/extra mass of the object would be transformed into Investiture, the amount of which would probably be based on the perception of how much mass/energy the user thought should be conserved.