What's with Fabrial Soulcasting Savants?

[KalaDANG]

In one of Dalinar's flashbacks in Oathbringer, the one describing Gavilar's funeral, we see a Soulcaster who has obviously been soulcasting for a long time, because there are clear physical changes. I noticed something kind of interesting that I wanted to talk about. Here's the passage.

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"The Soulcaster might have been male, might have been female. Hard to say, with that hood up over their face. The skin beneath was colored like granite, cracked and chipped, and seemed to glow from within."

And here is a passage from the A-Team's journey through Shadesmar describing a certain type of spren that is seen. 

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"A small group of Cryptics passed nearby, huddling close together as they walked. Each had a head with a slightly different pattern. There were other spren with skin like cracked stone, molten light shining from within."

Those are described in almost exactly the same way. I don't think that's a coincidence. Does soulcasting a certain essence again and again over a long period of time make you start to develop the physical traits and characteristics of the spren that is associated with with that essence? What do you guys think?

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by KalaDANG

[Nathrangking]

It would seem so based on what we see in kaza's interlude as well as in the hidden grain room in Kholinar.

[KalaDANG]

That's so interesting! I looked at what the essence of smoke and gas was associated with herald wise, and the radiant spren associated with them are the highspren. So maybe Kaza at the end looked like a Highspren? We can't really confirm what highspren look like yet, since they haven't shown up yet. 

[Calderis]

I think they take on attributes that are sprenlike... But I don't think they specifically turn into Radiant spren physically. 

The grain Soulcaster had the vines growing under her skin and around her eyes but I don't think there were crystal qualities to her hands, and the Skybreakers are associated with smoke the essence of smoke and Kaza wasn't changing to look like a hole in reality... But that's only their physical realm appearance so

Edited August 10, 2018 by Calderis

[+Extesian]

It's more like in the physical realm you are visibly seeing the person's soul merging with investiture, and since that investiture is associated with certain matter (the matter the soulcaster is turning stuff into) you see that matter. 

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Questioner

So Allomantic Savants. So I was curious-- That system-- When that happens, is it purely physiological, or is there something else happening in terms of--

Brandon Sanderson

Uhh, it's physiological in a cosmere sense, but that can involve your Cognitive and Spiritual aspects.

Questioner

I guess the question there is, are there other similar processes to savantism with other--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah you've seen it. So, Soulcasters.

Argent

Where their skin turns--

Brandon Sanderson

Where they're slowly being-- their spirit is slowly being merged and infused with Investiture that is having Physical ramifications. It's the same thing.

source

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Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant.

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

So they are protected from being turned into--

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarificaiton* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight].

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

Or is that counteracted by the healing as well?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

You are not losing body parts to smoke.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, you are not using body parts to smoke. 

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some--

Questioner 2 [PENDING REVIEW]

Depending on how often they Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person. 

source

 

[BobyVass]

So, as I am reading through this, it looks like the savant wiki page and the soulcasting wiki page are wrong about soulcasting savanthood. Soulcasting savants do not start looking like the essence they are producing, but rather some kind of spren. Kaza may not be turning into a highspren, but she is surely turning into some kind of smokespren, seen in Celebrant and on Notum's ship in Shadesmar. Ithi and her sister start looking like cultivationspren and the ardent that soulcast Gavilar looked like the shining-cracked-stone-spren. Also, Kaza does not taste food and almost doesn't need to eat. Spren don't need food and neither can taste it. The aimian that poisons the group of people (and Kaza) trying to approach Aimia, claims that Kaza is almost not a human. So am I right to claim that soulcasting savants turn into some kind of spren, but not an essence? Does a change in the wiki need to be done?

Some questions are to be asked here:
The one wielding the Azish soulcaster that produce bronze surely must be a savant after creating *so much* bronze to build the entire royal palace alone. What does she turn into, as bronze is not one of the ten essences so shouldn't have a corresponding spren?
What happens to soulcasters producing meat? 

[Kuram]

Maybe it's resemblance to the spren within the gem of the fabrial.

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, Kuram said:

Maybe it's resemblance to the spren within the gem of the fabrial.

Which gem? When the gems on them crack they are just replaced.

[Kuram]

Don't fabrials trap a specific type of spren in order to function?

[SteelShaper]

2 hours ago, Kuram said:

Don't fabrials trap a specific type of spren in order to function?

Soulcasting fabrials operate on a different principle so far as I understand it.  A surge [Transformation] is somehow bound to the device, but it doesn't use a spren like other fabrials.  Any infused gem (of the proper color for what the given soulcaster is meant to do) will work to power it.

[XeGnome]

In reading what Brandon “didn’t say” ... could the spren Of that type be inhabiting or gaining physical form through the constant use of the soulcaster. Ultimately transformed if the last soul cast was the death/replacement of the human.   I suspect that if that were possible, the human would have perished well prior from the strains.   It seems the “cost of magic” is high without a true bond with the spren.

[Brgst13]

Basically, spren are intelligence combined with Investiture.  There 10 types of Radiantspren, and 10 different gemstones for Soulcasting.  It stands to reason, then, as the Physical self disintegrates, and Investiture combines with the Spiritual self, they would likely resemble the spren, since they are basically a Cognitive and Spiritual aspect combined with Investiture.  They also can see into Shadesmar.  I would like to know if Kava actually did die, or if she moved into the Cognitive realm.

[Weltall]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:20 AM, BobyVass said:

So, as I am reading through this, it looks like the savant wiki page and the soulcasting wiki page are wrong about soulcasting savanthood.

You do realize that you necro'd a topic that was almost two years dead to share your theory, right? One that's contradicted by a WoB that was already provided by Extesian years ago. 'Turning into a spren' isn't what's happening and moreover it's functionally impossible when you consider what the spren are. A spren is a Splinter, a chunk of Investiture separated from a Shard, with some degree of intelligence and frequently its own intent. Splinters are generally defined as things that have never been human. A Cognitive Shadow is kind of a Splinter that used to be alive but there's an important distinction: You have to die first to become one.

Soulcasting Savants are changing due to their use of Investiture but they're not becoming spren and the wiki doesn't need to be changed.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Weltall

[BobyVass]

On 7/20/2020 at 1:02 AM, Weltall said:

You do realize that you necro'd a topic that was almost two years dead to share your theory, right? One that's contradicted by a WoB that was already provided by Extesian years ago. 'Turning into a spren' isn't what's happening and moreover it's functionally impossible when you consider what the spren are. A spren is a Splinter, a chunk of Investiture separated from a Shard, with some degree of intelligence and frequently its own intent. Splinters are generally defined as things that have never been human. A Cognitive Shadow is kind of a Splinter that used to be alive but there's an important distinction: You have to die first to become one.

Soulcasting Savants are changing due to their use of Investiture but they're not becoming spren and the wiki doesn't need to be changed.

Thank you. That kinda explains it...   :I