Jul 23 2018_Oomph Part 3_2995 words (L)

[shatteredsmooth]

Hi All,

I'm a little disappointed in my lack of progress on revisions over the past week. Lot's of stops and starts. I'm working on slowing down the parts that were rushed and confusing, but didn't get as far as I hoped. I'm sending the next couple chapters anyway, though I'm not super confident about them. I have that feeling where I almost know what is wrong, but still can't quite name or identify it. 

 

Whatever feedback you have will be good, however, it would be helpful if you could point out places where 

• you expect an emotional reaction from a character but don't get one or places where there is actually appropriate emotional reaction
• where there is some illogical or nonsensical piece of world building or you are missing something key about the world or a place where I did something right related to world building
• places where you get bored/lost or places are very engaged with the story. 

 

Lately I've been a bit antsy about the quieter scenes that don't have a lot of action. I know that in a lot of ways, they are the more important ones where you learn about the characters, but for some reason I have this illogical fear of them being so boring the reader will just throw the book out the window that I try to skip them. I kind of wanted to skip parts of this submission, but I made myself write it and revise it. Was that a mistake?

 

Don't worry about grammar or LBL's unless you think there isn't much else to comment on. 

 

Also, I copied Robinski this week and included the old text in the file, but faded it to light gray. I did this because I'm still working on the earlier sections and it will just help me keep everything in one file until I move beyond it.  The actual submission starts with the black text on page 35, and is 2995 words long.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Last time, Di and friends fled Earth after killing a system enforcement officer, got to the moon, and made it to a secret hanger without getting detected. Ronny, Di's father figure, brought them to a ship, and left to go get supplies. He came back with the SE hot on his tail. He got injured. Di flew the ship and escaped to hyperspace, but Ronny lost consciousness and fell into a coma. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by shatteredsmooth
forgot recap

[Robinski]

I'm sending you LBLs separately, but here are the more substantive comments:

- Various grammar and phrasing things in the LBLs.

- Why would Z turn the store of clothes into printer fibre, if they are looking to chance their appearance? Seems redundant.

- I found the logic around the credit sticks a bit fuzzy.

- "The world [sic] word sounds exciting in my mind and in hushed conversations." - This is not the first time you've used this phrase (in my mind), and I have a real love hate relatonship with it. I think it's way overused. The only place characters have to think in is their mind. Any thought that is expressed in narrative, in first person, takes place in the character's mind, so the phrase is redundant. I find it a weak phrase for that reason, and it conveys very little. 'hushed conversations' however is a phrase that evokes subterfuge and excitement. I agree that the line works best with two references, but I think something like "The word sounds exciting in hushed conversations and hidden messages..." would be way more effevtive than the rather nebulous 'in my mind'. Or, if you want the 'mind' angle, you could use "hurried thoughts and hushed conversations" - which is even alliterative  

- "cold steam" - if it's cold, it ain't steam. Must be some other kind of gas.

- "Just long enough to refuel and make sure we have enough provisions" - They've just acquired a load of provisions, I'd be really surprised if they've gong through any amount of the stuff. This comments throws me.

- Z's first suggestion isn't resolved, the section just ends, and felt really unfinished to me. I don't think that works. Also, not sure I see any need for a section break there. The gap in the narrative is not big, it seems to me, and you can bridge it with one line about dropping through the atmosphere, or something like that.

- Stashing physical credit sticks around different planets seems incredibly outmoded in a world where interstellar flight is a thing. I mean, physical money is on its way out in our world.

- If everyone knows where the illicit warehouses are, why have the SE not busted them up?

- "Enough people fill the streets that I can disappear a little." - Bah. How can you disappear a little? Also, either there are enough people to fill the streets or not, surely?

- "what's his name you're supposed to meet" - This felt manufactured to me. We never heard where they were going or why until they arrive. When was this arrangement made, and how?

- The ending is a bit weak, for me. I think there's an awesome opportunity to land a better joke here. Di hopes that they don't need to wear skimpy uniforms. I think the big laugh would be to close on the last line of the advert. 'Uniform will be provided.'

[Robinski]

On 24/07/2018 at 2:34 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

Whatever feedback you have will be good, however, it would be helpful if you could point out places where 

• you expect an emotional reaction from a character but don't get one or places where there is actually appropriate emotional reaction

I think I flagged a couple in the LBLs I sent

On 24/07/2018 at 2:34 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

• where there is some illogical or nonsensical piece of world building or you are missing something key about the world or a place where I did something right related to world building

Again, I think I did this. Nothing dramatic. But I say that on the basis that there is not a huge amount of description of anything, and that is the form of the approach, so it would tend to be inconsistent to flag places where there could be more description, as that would be everywhere  

On 24/07/2018 at 2:34 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

• places where you get bored/lost or places are very engaged with the story. 

I never got bored. You mentioned quiet scenes, but all the scene are pretty short, so it's never long before something happens. From that perspective, I felt the pacing was okay. Yes, you could dial up a lot of the character reactions, and there were a couple of places where I didn't follow how they got there. These are flagged in the LBLs. 

Still, I was entertained. Events skips along and I would say keep going, don't stress on details, and certainly don't go back to the beginning. Let's get through the first draft so you have a full 'suite' of comments to tackle in the first edit  

[shatteredsmooth]

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

- "Just long enough to refuel and make sure we have enough provisions

I meant to delete the provisions line. In this version, Ronny got the provisions, but not the fuel.

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

Again, I think I did this. Nothing dramatic. But I say that on the basis that there is not a huge amount of description of anything, and that is the form of the approach, so it would tend to be inconsistent to flag places where there could be more description, as that would be everywhere

Interesting. I didn't actually intend to write this in a form with such little description, but it does seem to be a form I chose. I suspect it is because it's in more urban settings and not out in the woods or on the ocean, 

 

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

don't stress on details, and certainly don't go back to the beginning. Let's get through the first draft so you have a full 'suite' of comments to tackle in the first edit

The first draft of this was last years NaNoWriMo. I've been editing / expanding / changing from past to present tense before I send each chapter. I keep thinking if I go back and revise again before I move on, he new stuff will have less problems, but it might not, and I'm probably just making more work for myself. I guess none of the comments in the last couple batches have suggested any major plot changes. I keep worrying that the changes are going to cause some major shift and result in me deleting half the book and rewriting it, but they really won't. Clarifications, better description, transitions, world building, more emotion, and some in-scene structure build on what it is already there. It's revision and edits, not complete rewrites. 

 

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

Stashing physical credit sticks around different planets seems incredibly outmoded in a world where interstellar flight is a thing. I mean, physical money is on its way out in our world.

 

This is one of those world building details I'm having a hard time with. If physical money goes away, I keep thinking that means governments can track all money. But that isn't necessarily true, because bitcoin exists now, and that is used for illegal stuff. So I guess if psychical money is gone in the story's world, then it needs to be clear that the criminals are always a step ahead of the government as far as tracking and hacking goes? 

And here is another description fail. I guess I was thinking of the cred sticks almost like those bank gift cards that have set amounts of money on them. There is a chip or code on/in it that links to a virtual account with a set amount of money in it. But in a world with more advanced tech than this one, that is probably redundant. 

Also, re physical money, didn't @kais have a physical money system in Ardulum? Or did I read that wrong? 

In this particular story, not having physical money could up the stakes. Because with anything digital there is a risk of it being traced even if it is hard or  uncommon the setting. That would give the characters more reason to barter for things and not buy them outright. 

___

Thank you very much for all your feedback! Your comments always challenge me in a good way and help me flesh out the world and characters. 

 

 

 

[Mandamon]

This section read well to me. I didn't find a whole lot wrong, but as @Robinski says, you could probably take some time to bring characters out of their thoughts and focus more on the interplay of emotions. You tend to rush from one plot point to the next, and I'm fine with staying a little longer to get more emotional impact out of a scene.

Going along with that, I though the section with D wandering the abandoned houses dragged a lot, even though it was only a page or so. This was pure introspection, and then we don't even get to see what's going on in the warehouse. D just tells the others what happened. You could either expand or delete this scene, but at the moment, it's dragging the rest of the section down, to me.

I also thought the section where Z suggests working the show needs to be fleshed out. As is, it sort of drops everything to go to the next scene, without resolving what the others thought of his suggestion.

Notes while reading:

pg 36: "my unknown father is plotting some kind of coup"
--er, did we know this? I think I'm still hazy on how the father figures in, but might also be WRS.

pg 35: "galley we haven’t explored."
--missing a quote (I know these are hard to find)

pg 40 "I owe him enough already"
-R or Z?

pg 41: "“There is plenty to do here if we need to stick around and stock up"
--who's saying this?

pg 42: "“Working?” I ask."
--I'm confused too, and it looks like this doesn't get an answer in the next few paragraphs.

pg 43: starting to lose tension here. I'm not sure why the MC is wandering through an abandoned neighborhood.

pg 45: ok, back on track here, but I wonder if you could either expand or delete the section with wandering around the abandoned buildings. We don't really get any tension out of it, since MC uses oomph and doesn't get close enough to actually see anything.

[Robinski]

3 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

The first draft of this was last years NaNoWriMo. I've been editing / expanding / changing from past to present tense before I send each chapter. I keep thinking if I go back and revise again before I move on, he new stuff will have less problems, but it might not, and I'm probably just making more work for myself. I guess none of the comments in the last couple batches have suggested any major plot changes. I keep worrying that the changes are going to cause some major shift and result in me deleting half the book and rewriting it, but they really won't. Clarifications, better description, transitions, world building, more emotion, and some in-scene structure build on what it is already there. It's revision and edits, not complete rewrites. 

Yes, totally. Sorry, of course you said it was a second draft. Apologies, I misremembered.

3 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

This is one of those world building details I'm having a hard time with. If physical money goes away, I keep thinking that means governments can track all money. But that isn't necessarily true, because bitcoin exists now, and that is used for illegal stuff. So I guess if psychical money is gone in the story's world, then it needs to be clear that the criminals are always a step ahead of the government as far as tracking and hacking goes?

I don't think that needs to take a lot of work. I think it's one of those things that, if you show it working in that way, maybe no actual description is required, and the reader still would accept it. Dunno. Interest in other opinions. It's your world, and if that's how it works I have to accept that. The other way to go would be to perhaps just highlight in passing why they still have physical 'money'.

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

You tend to rush from one plot point to the next, and I'm fine with staying a little longer to get more emotional impact out of a scene.

Yup. Even if it's just one more sentence per scene or action, it will still add to character and setting.

[shatteredsmooth]

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

pg 36: "my unknown father is plotting some kind of coup"
--er, did we know this? I think I'm still hazy on how the father figures in, but might also be WRS.

It's set up in a newer version of the first chapter. 

Basically, D doesn't know who or what he is. Mom won't say, and DNA analysis lists him as an unknown species. There was a rushed convo with Ronny in the last section about how Di's dad is involved in some kind of coup against the tri-system because of how they treat Oomph users. Ronny made it sound like the dad was organizing it, but it's a little more complicated than that. 

Di doesn't know much else. I do, but that will come into play later.

What I think I need to clarify in this and earlier chapters is right now, D wants to get out of the systems and the galactic alliance (which is like the UN) and get rid of the artifact, preferably somewhere far from SE because they don't trust SE. So delivering to their dad -- the person Ronny was bring it to, would make sense. Plus, they do want to know who their bio dad is. 

You didn't mention the artifact, but your comment still reminded me that it kind of disappeared / was forgotten after Ronny took in Ch 2 or 3 and that is a problem. 

Maybe when I send out my next submission I'll ad a footnote about important things that got left out or glossed over in the earlier chapters.  

Thank you for the feedback!  :-)

[kais]

On 7/25/2018 at 5:16 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

Also, re physical money, didn't @kais have a physical money system in Ardulum? Or did I read that wrong? 

 

For sure. The Charted Systems use diamond rounds, and the Alliance uses sapphires. Ard itself has a whole different currency system I think was andal chits. They're not often used, however, and mostly they're there to show the sort of 'old' tech side of things used by the crew. It is only 2060, after all. 

In the backstories you find out that Earth pushed for diamond currency because of the diamond mines on Jupiter, and because Earth can't give up its currency. 

[Robinski]

6 hours ago, kais said:

For sure.

Yeah, I acknowledge that. I dunno, I think stories have a 'feel' about their tech level that makes me think about the technology in different ways. Ard with its wooden spaceships felt more natural to me in the sense of them not having phones or computers (really, I know they did, but I didn't think too closely about how they worked). In Oomph, with its autodocs and touchscreens, it feels to me like the level of personal tech would be higher. I'm sure it's not a huge issue.

[kais]

Well, I can almost see the bottom of my email again. WOOHOO!

Overall

Not a lot to comment on. These are bridge chapters, which are fine. It's been too long since I last read from you, so I find myself wondering what the through line is, and why I care about these characters. I'm assuming that's WRS and my medical leave though. I like the carrot of the night club and potentially outfits and glitter. Good hook.

On 7/24/2018 at 11:58 PM, Robinski said:

Di hopes that they don't need to wear skimpy uniforms. I think the big laugh would be to close on the last line of the advert. 'Uniform will be provided.'

Agree. this would be amazing

On 7/25/2018 at 7:25 AM, Mandamon said:

some time to bring characters out of their thoughts and focus more on the interplay of emotions.

This exactly

On 7/25/2018 at 7:25 AM, Mandamon said:

er, did we know this? I think I'm still hazy on how the father figures in, but might also be WRS.

Same. I have no memory of this plot point being relevant, but also possible WRS

On 8/1/2018 at 11:22 PM, Robinski said:

Ard with its wooden spaceships felt more natural to me in the sense of them not having phones or computers (really, I know they did, but I didn't think too closely about how they worked). In Oomph, with its autodocs and touchscreens, it feels to me like the level of personal tech would be higher. I'm sure it's not a huge issue.

This makes sense to me, because in Ard I've taken the tech in a non-standard direction, whereas in Oomph it's following a more standard course. Oomph relies on cutting edge tech, the Pledge deals in stuff from Y's life (and he was born in the 1980s). So I can see the argument for no currency, especially intergalactically, in a truly 'advanced' book, like Oomph.

Your questions

- you expect an emotional reaction from a character but don't get one or places where there is actually appropriate emotional reaction

There wasn't much emotion in here to emote. More than anything I thought we were being spoon fed in MC's head too much, instead of getting reactions from the characters

- where there is some illogical or nonsensical piece of world building or you are missing something key about the world or a place where I did something right related to world building

Right now, no issues here.

- places where you get bored/lost or places are very engaged with the story. 

These are bridge chapters, so while there wasn't much tension, I didn't expect any, either. Sometimes it's okay to have 'just a day on a ship.'

 

As I go

- those opening paragraphs where MC is rationalizing and recapping actually make me feel more distant. I think I'd rather see this struggle through dialogue and action, rather than mental thought

- same with lines like: Al and I earned are status as fugitives. Zeek was pushed here by things out of his control. I already know this. I don't need to be told it. It feels like you're not giving the reader enough credit to figure things out on our own

- page 38: same deal here. We get mental musings which push me from the narrative, but then the weapons are exposed and the impact from that is much more effective. It answers my questions without the direct questions being fed to me

- page 39: "while you make love to that." LOL!

[shatteredsmooth]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:39 PM, kais said:

(and he was born in the 1980s)

It was probably stated somewhere in the book, but it didn't click with me that he was in he was 80 or close to it. You said 2060's, so 1980's to then...

But yeah, I get the point. I had said something about 2300's but I'm not sure I'm sticking with that. I'm going to build the world as I go and try to figure out what year it is based on that.

Thank you for the comments! 

Edited August 4, 2018 by shatteredsmooth