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braxton91

oathbringer
[OB] Why hasn't Cultivation helped at all?

Question

I'm about half way through Oathbringer. There is one thing that's nagging at me. It seems that the only thing that cultivation has done through out the entire story is be the night watcher and give an edge dancer a neat trick. Wouldn't it have been in cultivation the best interest to keep honor from shattering? Am I giving shards too much credit. Did I miss something along the way? 

Please help               me=noob

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10 minutes ago, braxton91 said:

So is there any evidence that she has tried to resist odium?

 Since Odium hasn't splintered her that means she can fight back for sure. Well here's a bunch of WoB's about this. At least the closest i could find

 

Quote

FirstSelector

Was Cultivation close enough to when Odium got  Honor, to know how to fight back?

Brandon Sanderson

Heheheheh. I would say yes.

FirstSelector

And Cultivation, is she--

Brandon Sanderson

She is still there.

FirstSelector

Alive and kicking. Okay, you've said that before--

Brandon Sanderson

She is alive and kicking.

FirstSelector

And she can probably know how to not turn her back to the--

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I mean... She has learned from the experiences of others.

source

 

Quote

Gavin-son-son-Odegard [PENDING REVIEW]

How does Cultivation figure in this conflict between Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, what people assume is that Cultivation is hiding. I would disagree with that. People in-world would assume that.

source

 

Quote

Seonid

If Cultivation and Honor were romantically involved, why did Cultivation not help Honor against Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

She did.

source

 

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There's also this one, bolded for emphasis. 

Quote

Wolfbeckett

Are things that are written by scholars on Roshar suspect? In Mistborn, Ruin could change anything that was written down, so can Odium do the same? Are written words on Roshar: untrustworthy, trustworthy because that ability was somehow limited to Ruin, or trustworthy because Odium COULD do it but just won't because it's not his style/he doesn't consider it?

Brandon Sanderson

Odium didn't have a hand in creating Roshar, and his essence doesn't permeate it in the same way as Ruin permeated Scadrial. This gave Ruin a great deal more power over things like this--except when he ran into metals, of course.

Another difference is that Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him. (Contrasted to one that was half-dead and going mad.)

So yes, you can trust much of what was written. Odium can be subtle when he needs to be, but his primary avenue of attack has been along a different line than the one Ruin used.

source

 

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Cultivation is a schemer. She tried to help Honor, per WoB, though we don't know how. 

She's active, and has her own plans, but she's a web weaver. If she's in a position that you actually see what she's doing, then she's already been backed into a corner. 

Keep reading, and keep paying attention. She's subtle, but she's actively doing things. It's more a question of why certain things happen, I think. 

What chapter are you on? I don't want to call attention to anything you haven't read yet. 

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to add on to what Calderis said, at this point Odium has already shattered 4 shards, so it makes sense that Cultivation would want to keep herself hidden.  in a one on one figth against him, she may not be able to win.  this means that anythign she does do has to be circumspect.

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Cultivation is a schemer. She tried to help Honor, per WoB, though we don't know how. 

She's active, and has her own plans, but she's a web weaver. If she's in a position that you actually see what she's doing, then she's already been backed into a corner. 

Yeah i had the same impression. It's possible that Odium might've targeted Roshar because of the vessels rather than their intent.

I also have a tinfoil hat theory(it's a bit common) that Cultivation might've intentionally let Honor fall or indirectly helped Odium to get out of the stalemate. And then end up in the situation where it benefits her grand plans as a shard. 

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4 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Yeah i had the same impression. It's possible that Odium might've targeted Roshar because of the vessels rather than their intent.

I also have a tinfoil hat theory(it's a bit common) that Cultivation might've intentionally let Honor fall or indirectly helped Odium to get out of the stalemate. And then end up in the situation where it benefits her grand plans as a shard. 

Doubtful as we have a WoB that states that the vessel of Honor and Cultivation were in love.

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So is there any evidence that she has tried to resist odium?

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Just now, Nathrangking said:

Doubtful as we have a WoB that states that the vessel of Honor and Cultivation were in love.

Yeah that's why it's just a tinfoil hat theory and considering how Sanderson writes his romantic couples i doubt this will happen. 

But also brings the question is that what kind of person "Slammer" is and how much did the Cultivation intent already shape her thoughts/will/motives ? That if a kind-hearted/caring vessel from the mistborn series got twisted by his intent so much that he became a literal Dark Lord hellbent on destroying everything(admittedly the intent of change/death can easily be translated for destruction so touche)

Is she pragmatic/ruthless or is she the classical person who wouldn't go too far ? How much does "romantic love" really matter to a vessel who held the Shard of Adonalsium for far too long ?

Is she the type of person who puts love first or duty ? Does she consider her role as a vessel a duty?

Does her responsibilities as a shard outweigh everything in her life ? 

We know nothing about her so we can't be really exactly certain.

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Posted (edited)

@braxton91 This is non-canon, but I personally think that Cultivation is using Taravangian as pawn, through the Nightwatcher giving him his boon/curse. The Diagram just screams shardic intervention to me.

EDIT: Also, welcome to the Shard! If you went, you can go say hello in the introduce yourself section of the forum.

Edited by StrikerEZ
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

@braxton91 This is non-canon, but I personally think that Cultivation is using Taravangian as pawn, through the Nightwatcher giving him his boon/curse. The Diagram just screams shardic intervention to me.

It's pretty safe to assume that Cultivation has a hand on Taravangian and the Diagram however remember when Ruin said sometimes he could not resist helping even if it was his enemy if it embraced his nature. Well

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, in Oathbringer, when Dalinar goes to the Nightwatcher, we see Cultivation intervene directly. How closely does she supervise other Nightwatcher <visits>? Could the Nightwatcher give a boon that Cultivation wouldn't want her to?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Well... yes. "Wouldn't want her to" is a strong phrase. Like, Cultivation is always aware of what's going on. Cultivation rarely intervenes, even if she thinks it would be a bad boon, because she wants the Nightwatcher to learn. And she also is very interested in seeing what happens. So, rarely intervenes, but is aware.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Would she intervene if she thought the boon would help Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Not necessarily.

source

I wouldn't assume that everything Cultivation influences has a purpose that helps her agenda. Sometimes it could just be about her intent. Odium is probably the same but we haven't seen evidence of that.

Edited by goody153
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So many questions, hopefully we begin to see her intent. At least hear about what her plans are. 

Thanks for all the help and crazy good quotes. I would have never found it on my own. You guys rock!!!:D

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On 7/10/2018 at 11:24 PM, braxton91 said:

So many questions, hopefully we begin to see her intent. At least hear about what her plans are. 

Thanks for all the help and crazy good quotes. I would have never found it on my own. You guys rock!!!:D

Keep reading and you may spot a few more things...

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Another thing, when the Stormfather holds back Odium to let Dalinar talk to Venli in the vision, Odium doesnt destroy him because "it would leave him open to a strike by Cultivation". This proves Cultivation isnt dormant, and is just biding her time to resist Odium.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, TheManKnownAsHoid said:

Another thing, when the Stormfather holds back Odium to let Dalinar talk to Venli in the vision, Odium doesnt destroy him because "it would leave him open to a strike by Cultivation". This proves Cultivation isnt dormant, and is just biding her time to resist Odium.

Odium might also just be projecting.  He's extremely afraid of what other shards will do to him; not necessarily because they would immediately pounce on him, but because he knows that's what he would do in that situation.

Edited by Journey Before Pancakes
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On 7/10/2018 at 10:15 PM, braxton91 said:

So is there any evidence that she has tried to resist odium?

Yup, per WOB she tried to help Honor against Odium. 

We know that she takes the long game on things (as expected for a Cultivator), and that she is something of a risk-taker given Dalinar.  I strongly suspect that we will see some of the Nightwatcher Boons revealed to be a lot more specifically aimed than they first appear.  Mr T is the obvious one, but I strongly suspect that Lift and her Food-to-Stormlight conversion ability will prove to be the Chekhov's Gun of the stormlight archive. 

 

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But is her Food-to-Stormlight conversion ability her boon or curse from the Nightwatcher? Because the other side is her eternal youth, which seems like something she would ask for.

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25 minutes ago, TheManKnownAsHoid said:

But is her Food-to-Stormlight conversion ability her boon or curse from the Nightwatcher? Because the other side is her eternal youth, which seems like something she would ask for.

She may not have a typical boon-curse combination.

I think she may have asked for something too obscure for the Nightwatcher, and instead met Cultivation, like Dalinar had.  There's a chance she got something else.  The WoB's on the topic seem to have him purposefully dodge saying that "the Nightwatcher" gave her the conversion instead saying "the Old Magic" did and stuff.

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Yeah I strongly suspect Cultivation got involved in Lift's case, and somewhat less strongly suspect she got involved with Mr. T.

 

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