Kramerfarve Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 Ok, kind of a crazy theory, what would happen if a mistborn went to Roshar and bonded a high spren, achieved the third ideal, and formed their spren into a godmetal bead which they burned? Would the spren die? Would they gain access to surges without any type of spren-blade? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 I have a feeling that the spren would not be happy about this and would try to pull out of their mostly-Physical form before they could be 'burned'. And there may be a minimum-size threshold in the same way that we know there's an upper limit to how big a sprenblade can get, and a minimum size for how small a kandra can be, which would make it hard to actually swallow. It would probably be a far better thing for all concerned for the mistborn to grab a piece of Plate, chip off a bit and try to burn that first and see what it does. Which if the theory about Plate being 'lesser' spren is correct would probably do something related to the type of spren in question. But assuming all your hypotheticals, my guess is that the spren would not die but their personality would be destroyed in the process or at least badly damaged. The Investiture that the spren is made of can't be destroyed outright but it can change form. Maybe the spren would reform itself but the part of its spiritweb that says 'This is who I am' would be gone, spliced in some way to the mistborn's own. And you wouldn't have a bond with the 'new' spren. Any power received would probably relate to either inhaling Stormlight or use of the associated Surges of the specific Order. Or, worst case scenario for all concerned, the act of trying to burn a living spren results in the bond breaking before their Physical form can be completely burned, they die and become locked into their default 'Gimormous Sword' form... while still inside the mistborn. Ouch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 I suspect it would be at least as damaging as the Recreance, if not moreso; it may not 100% destroy the spren in question, but it would be destroying the only physical form they had left and I have to assume it would be violating the Ideals enough to damage them on that side as well. Id think a broken chunk of Plate would be far less problematic if the goal is just to see what Powers a Rosharan God-metal might manifest. Its still technically made of Spren but since it regrows from damage around the biggest and/or most energized piece I dont think those spren are going to be as tied to (or protective of) their physical form. As to what it might do, that is REALLY hard to guess. Right now we only have the two examples: Preservation permanently alters your spirit-web to make a Mistborn, but Ruin's taps Fortune in some fashion to show you the future (despite Ruin not being especially good at future-sight...?), neither is an obvious reflection of the shard's Intent and Preservation is arguably counter to it since it's Changing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Quantus said: I suspect it would be at least as damaging as the Recreance, if not moreso; it may not 100% destroy the spren in question, but it would be destroying the only physical form they had left and I have to assume it would be violating the Ideals enough to damage them on that side as well. Id think a broken chunk of Plate would be far less problematic if the goal is just to see what Powers a Rosharan God-metal might manifest. Its still technically made of Spren but since it regrows from damage around the biggest and/or most energized piece I dont think those spren are going to be as tied to (or protective of) their physical form. As to what it might do, that is REALLY hard to guess. Right now we only have the two examples: Preservation permanently alters your spirit-web to make a Mistborn, but Ruin's taps Fortune in some fashion to show you the future (despite Ruin not being especially good at future-sight...?), neither is an obvious reflection of the shard's Intent and Preservation is arguably counter to it since it's Changing things. Burning Lerasium perserves you because it fills your Spiritweb with Perservation's power(I belt that's how it works). All shards can see a few seconds in the future, it's when they start looking years and decades and sometimes months in the future that some shards are better than others. Also atium affects your spiritweb, it expands it allowing you to use Fortune and see the future. So I guessing that burning an alloy of tanavastium and Cultivation's God metal will affect your spiritweb also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistLord Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 I don't think Shardblades can change their composition. It's been noted that Shardblades and Shardplate are made of the same material – probably some kind of Invested aluminium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, MistLord said: I don't think Shardblades can change their composition. It's been noted that Shardblades and Shardplate are made of the same material – probably some kind of Invested aluminium. Shardblades and Shardplate are investiture made in solid-like form(the same as ettmetal, atium, Trellium, and Lerasium except they are connected to different shards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, MistLord said: I don't think Shardblades can change their composition. It's been noted that Shardblades and Shardplate are made of the same material – probably some kind of Invested aluminium. Shardblades are a mix of Honor and Cultivation's Investiture, while the Honorblades are presumably pure 'Tanavastium Quote Questioner I'm curious. Are any of those rare metals from Mistborn on any other world? Brandon Sanderson So, not those exact metals, unless they've been taken off-world. But there are other metals like them that you could find. Questioner So they could have Allomantic lore? Brandon Sanderson They theoretically could... Let's just say it's not a coincidence that you find Investiture manifesting as metal on other places. Such as Shardblades, as well. source Edited July 11, 2018 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 And I seriously doubt that Shardplate and Shardblades are compositionally identical. Shardblades are unbreakable. Shardplate cracks and leaks, and shatters. They function in completely different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 I actually think the reason shardblades are unbreakable, because all shardblades contain a sapient mind or pieces of a sapient mind. Shardplate, if its make from lesser spren, the spren aren't sapient, and atium and lerasium don't have minds at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 I do believe they are also different metals. Shardblades are described as silvery while plate is described as slate grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 So Shardblades and Shardplate are different metals, but should have similar properties because they are both investiture made physical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, MountainKing said: So Shardblades and Shardplate are different metals, but should have similar properties because they are both investiture made physical I was ranting about this yesterday in discord, and just how much I dislike the Spren theory. Shardblades and plate act completely differently. If they are both spren they should both be forced into a similar structure, yet Shardblades are unbreakable. Plate not only cracks and shatters, but it can be regrown like a crystal. They behave in no way the same. Add in the fact that spren should have their own identity, and I don't understand how in the world plate allows surges keyed to the Radiant but no others, and I very much think that they are two completely different substances, both compositionally, and in method of creation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, MountainKing said: So Shardblades and Shardplate are different metals, but should have similar properties because they are both investiture made physical Not to dogpile, but atium and ettmetal are different metals, both investiture made physical, but one of them will blow up if you touch it, the other is regularly swallowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Calderis said: I was ranting about this yesterday in discord, and just how much I dislike the Spren theory. Shardblades and plate act completely differently. If they are both spren they should both be forced into a similar structure, yet Shardblades are unbreakable. Plate not only cracks and shatters, but it can be regrown like a crystal. They behave in no way the same. Add in the fact that spren should have their own identity, and I don't understand how in the world plate allows surges keyed to the Radiant but no others, and I very much think that they are two completely different substances, both compositionally, and in method of creation. I agree completely. This has been the largest problem with the lesser spren=Shardplate theory for me. In addition to this, if it was made of spren, how would you regrow Shardplate? I could maybe understand that the Stormlight in the spheres you put into the plate attracts the spren that make up the plate, which then become the plate, but no one ever mentions seeing spren appear and become plate or no one mentions spren at least being near when plate is being regrown. I don't claim to know what Shardplate is or how it's made, but I can't buy into the theory that it's made from/by lesser spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmnsquirtle Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 20 hours ago, Weltall said: Shardblades are a mix of Honor and Cultivation's Investiture, while the Honorblades are presumably pure 'Tanavastium When you say Tanavastium, do you mean Odium's god metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Just now, tmnsquirtle said: When you say Tanavastium, do you mean Odium's god metal? No, Tanavast is the Vessel of Honor. Since Ati was the Vessel of Ruin, its godmetal was called atium. Preservation's Vessel was Leras, so lerasium. Weltall was just applying the same naming convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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