[OB] Rlain form of power

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Rlain is pretty much the last of the original bridge 4 to have not learned to draw in stormlight . Rlain says he has to change form to be able to draw stormlight. As Stormform is a new discovery by Venli , I don’t think this is the form Rlain is thinking of . Yes I know Venli is able to use stormlight in storm form . But I theorize there is another common form that could possibly do it to . Perhaps scholar form ? What’s the form that Venli and Eshonai usually wore ( I’m speaking of before Eshonai took warform). Anyways, I think it was scholar ! Does anyone else have a theory of what form this is that Rlain is speaking of? I’m really hoping for Rlain to become a radiant ! Together him and Venli can rebuild the listeners , and perhaps have them oppose the Fused!

[Nathrangking]

@SzethIsBadAsHellIt was not Scholar form they have not discovered that one as far as we know. Venli and Dabbid wore Nimbleform. That may be what he is thinking of. You should tag a mod to move this spoiler thread to the Oathbringer forum and mark it [OB] as all Oathbringer threads must be marked.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Nathrangking

[Journey Before Pancakes]

Rlain is talking about the forms in general from what I can tell.  That's just how they work, you need to be open to the form for it to go with your gemheart. 

Also, Venli's use of stormlight is because of the radiant spren she bonds, not like the other Parshendi forms.

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Journey Before Pancakes
Thought it wasn't in OB spoiler board.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

I’m new , I thought I was posting in spoiler section , please explain how to tag a mod and perhaps the name of a mod so I may do so and thanks for the help 

[Angsos]

I'm voting for Rlain to be the second bondsmith. I think it'd be hilarious if Axies accidentally become the third bondsmith

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Well Rlain can have the Nightwatcher , but the Sibling, I’m hoping Navani gets her hands on him so she can control Urithiru. 

[Journey Before Pancakes]

10 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I’m new , I thought I was posting in spoiler section , please explain how to tag a mod and perhaps the name of a mod so I may do so and thanks for the help 

There's a chance I had a moment of insanity and read the section wrong.  I had flagged it anyway to have it moved, and it's in the right section now, so I'll assume I screwed up, not you.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

1 hour ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

There's a chance I had a moment of insanity and read the section wrong.  I had flagged it anyway to have it moved, and it's in the right section now, so I'll assume I screwed up, not you.

Thanks I appreciate the help ! 

[vikorr]

Being a squire doesn't involve attracting a spren, so I don't see why Rlain needs a new form unless he becomes a Surgebinder, then KR. Having said that, has anyone thought of the differences between Rlain and other WR if he became a KR? He changes form by having the spren reside in his gemheart:

- What would the new form look like (I'm betting something really cool, and blue)

- How then does the spren become a shardblade? Is this why the fused have to carry spears, rather than shardblades? 

- Does it mean more efficient power, like how the Fused don't seem to run out of power when flying?

- What new rhythms would Rlain discover? Would other Wind Runners (or their spren) be able to understand them? If so, it would mean seeing Rlain in a completely new light.

[Journey Before Pancakes]

1 minute ago, vikorr said:

He changes form by having the spren reside in his gemheart:

Do we know that?

There are some spren that change their forms; but I don't think it OB suggested that Venli could change into another form due to Timbre (I know it's a bit different, due to the trapping).

He could keep his same form; it may even require trapping a spren that gives a form to work in the first place.  Venli is the first we've seen it happen.  Unless Rlain hustled hard while he was gone in OB, Venli is most likely the first ever singer to bond a Knight Radiant spren. 

I could see it giving a new form; but I could also see that not being the case.  I don't know if we understand enough of the mechanics behind the singer/spren bond to even say for sure it gives him a new form.

[Calderis]

I agree with @Journey Before Pancakes here. With what we've seen from Venli so far, I belive that a singer Radiant is going to have a traditional form, with a lesser spren trapped in their gemheart, and a Nahel Spren functioning in tandem, acting mostly as it would with a human.

If the Spren were to actually grant a form, I don't think it would be the same type of bond. They would be held to the gemheart completely. Perhaps it would grant surges, similar to how stormform granted powers... But I don't think that is a relationship that would involve oaths from the singer, or sapience for the Spren. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

38 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I agree with @Journey Before Pancakes here. With what we've seen from Venli so far, I belive that a singer Radiant is going to have a traditional form, with a lesser spren trapped in their gemheart, and a Nahel Spren functioning in tandem, acting mostly as it would with a human.

If the Spren were to actually grant a form, I don't think it would be the same type of bond. They would be held to the gemheart completely. Perhaps it would grant surges, similar to how stormform granted powers... But I don't think that is a relationship that would involve oaths from the singer, or sapience for the Spren. 

Venli is a willshaper , her ability to swap forms without a high storm is linked to that most likely. 

As far as Rlain goes , I didn’t post the whole quote. Basically Rlain says in order for him to draw in stormlight or open his body to it , he would need to be in a proper form ! I assume dullform, workform mateform are basic forms and don’t grant the ability for him to draw in stormlight. For that u need a form of power! Stormform, Envoyform (Venli ) ,the form that allow them to change There arm into clubs and saws etc! So if Rlain wanted to become a wind rider he would first have to put a lesser spren in his gemheart wind spren . With this he could assume a form of power and draw in power as a squire .. to become a radiant he would then have to attract and honor spren Like anyone else . That’s basically what Venli did the void spren granted her a form of power . Envoyform. She then bonded Timbre and became a willshaper . Eshonai did the same thing , she bonded an anger spren which gave her Stormform , she was in the process of Bonding Timbre when she died ! 

[Calderis]

8 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Venli is a willshaper , her ability to swap forms without a high storm is linked to that most likely.

Venli is not swapping forms. She is in Envoyform because of the voidspren that is trapped in her gemheart. Timbre can suppress that sprens influence enough to free her from the altered thought processes it brings, but she does not leave Envoyform. 

10 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I didn’t post the whole quote.

I know that. Here's the whole quote. 

Quote

When he and Skar had been the only two who couldn’t draw Stormlight, they’d encouraged Skar. They’d given him pep talks, told him to keep trying. They had believed in him. Rlain, though … well, who knew what would happen if he could use Stormlight? Might it be the first step in turning him into a monster?

Never mind that he’d told them you had to open yourself to a form to adopt it. Never mind that he had the power to choose for himself. Though they never spoke it, he saw the truth in their reactions. As with Dabbid, they thought it best that Rlain remain without Stormlight.

The parshman and the insane man. People you couldn’t trust as Windrunners.

This has nothing to do with him drawing in Stormlight. It's two separate subjects. 

The first is that despite what the others think, he must choose to take a form. He won't simply become a monster without opening himself to the Spren of that form.

The second point is related but separate. It's about how the others subconscious fear of his people makes them think he's better off without Stormlight. 

This is not related to the forms. 

[cfphelps]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Venli is not swapping forms. She is in Envoyform because of the voidspren that is trapped in her gemheart. Timbre can suppress that sprens influence enough to free her from the altered thought processes it brings, but she does not leave Envoyform. 

I know that. Here's the whole quote. 

This has nothing to do with him drawing in Stormlight. It's two separate subjects. 

The first is that despite what the others think, he must choose to take a form. He won't simply become a monster without opening himself to the Spren of that form.

The second point is related but separate. It's about how the others subconscious fear of his people makes them think he's better off without Stormlight. 

This is not related to the forms. 

This is adieu how I read that quote. The others are looking at him afraid he will suddenly become a Voidbringer. He's pointing out that he would have to open himself up to any new form in order to take a new form. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Venli is not swapping forms. She is in Envoyform because of the voidspren that is trapped in her gemheart. Timbre can suppress that sprens influence enough to free her from the altered thought processes it brings, but she does not leave Envoyform. 

I know that. Here's the whole quote. 

This has nothing to do with him drawing in Stormlight. It's two separate subjects. 

The first is that despite what the others think, he must choose to take a form. He won't simply become a monster without opening himself to the Spren of that form.

The second point is related but separate. It's about how the others subconscious fear of his people makes them think he's better off without Stormlight. 

This is not related to the forms. 

Quote

 

Ok I don’t know how to make my quote one line like you do , im new. Regardless if Timbre is suppresses the voidspren or not , she is changing between forms of power . She did it twice 

 

[Journey Before Pancakes]

2 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Ok I don’t know how to make my quote one line like you do , im new. Regardless if Timbre is suppresses the voidspren or not , she is changing between forms of power . She did it twice 

 

She can enter and exit the form of power granted by her voidspren at will.  That's because Timbre can suppress it.  It doesn't say that she can switch between forms of power, just that she can toggle any voidspren she has in her gemheart at will thanks to Timbre.

[Calderis]

8 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Ok I don’t know how to make my quote one line like you do , im new. Regardless if Timbre is suppresses the voidspren or not , she is changing between forms of power . She did it twice 

Her eyes changed color. That's all. Her form did not change. 

Changing forms requires changing the Spren trapped in the gemheart. 

[goody153]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Her eyes changed color. That's all. Her form did not change. 

Changing forms requires changing the Spren trapped in the gemheart. 

This is exactly what i wanted to see if what if the spren trapped in the gemheart wasn't a voidspren but a radiant spren(a willing one obviously a bonded radiant spren) just to see what form it produces. And what abilities it incorporates aside from the standard abilities that spren order gives 

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Ok you guys are really confusing me . I do not understand how u argue this. With any. Other listener they can only change a form of power during a hightorm. Like When Eshonai was in warform and placed an anger Soren in her Gem heart she changed to storm form . Now Venli has a voidspren inside of her that allows her Envoyform , if Timbre suppresses that and. Exits that form of power she chamges into a new form of power. Several forms of power look alike Envoyform and nimbleform for example , Stormform is a bigger form of warform and the user has red eyes , when she exited Envoyform why are u thinking that’s all that happened was her eyes changed? She can access different surges which would seem logical to me! And just because they haven’t shown it, dont u think it’s some benifit to it . Timbre is hiding in her gem heart now , he is a higher spren while the Voidspren There is a Subspren with no intelligence . So I theorize that Venli can use both the void light when she wants to and stormlight When she chooses to . It also allows her to hide this from other Fused . But it clearly says she can enter and exit forms of power . How can u argue with that!

 

On 2018-06-21 at 7:44 PM, Journey Before Pancakes said:

She can enter and exit the form of power granted by her voidspren at will.  That's because Timbre can suppress it.  It doesn't say that she can switch between forms of power, just that she can toggle any voidspren she has in her gemheart at will thanks to Timbre.

Dude it does not say toggle , it clearly says enter and exit a form of power. You choosing to see it like that , exiting a form of power means u change shape , period!!

 

@RShara can u help me out , I trust your judgement in all things , do u see this the same way

[RShara]

I have been summoned!

Sorry, I haven't read the thread entirely, but I just re-read the chapter from Rlain's PoV and I don't see him ever saying anything about being able to breath in stormlight.

I think as long as the same voidspren is trapped in the gemheart, they will not change form. The Radiant spren traps the voidspren, but the voidspren is what determines the form. Rlain was last in Warform, with a lesser normal spren who isn't associated with Odium. If a Radiant spren were to bond to him, he would keep his current form. If he let that spren go and bonded to a voidspren, he'd get that form, and the spren trapping it would keep him in that form.

Venli was in Nimbleform as one of the Five. However, my suspicion is that she had learned how to take scholarform sometimes, and did it secretly, with maybe just her partner aware of it.

Quote

That was the past. Now, Venli was a slender woman with a thin face, her marblings delicate swirling patterns of red and white. Nimbleform grew long hairstrands, with no carapace helm to block them. Venli’s, a deep red, flowed down to her waist, where they were tied in three places. She wore a robe, drawn tight at the waist and showing a hint of breasts at the chest. This was not mateform, so they were small.

Quote

Scholarform shown for patience and thought.

Beware its ambitions innate.

Though study and diligence bring the reward,

Loss of innocence may be one’s fate.

 

Venli is still in envoyform, even though Timbre trapped the voidspren in her gemheart. She hasn't released it or anything. It's still there, and she's still in envoyform. That won't change unless she goes out into a highstorm and gets another spren.

Edited June 22, 2018 by RShara

[Journey Before Pancakes]

32 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Dude it does not say toggle , it clearly says enter and exit a form of power. You choosing to see it like that , exiting a form of power means u change shape , period!!

"Entering and exiting" a form of power sounds a lot more like toggling than switching; I would expect it to say "change form of power" if she were able to switch between two forms she had on hand.

You're suggesting she went into another form of power; but she could only release/suppress the "power" that the voidspren was bringing her.  That's all that's been suggested so far in OB as well.  Probably not too wise to focus on the specific wording of the Coppermind vs. direct text evidence.

Based on all the evidence I've seen, I actually think if Venli didn't have a Voidspren in her gemheart, there wouldn't be a need for Timbre to be there either.  He did it to hide from the Fused.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Journey Before Pancakes

[Calderis]

@SzethIsBadAsHell the text does not say that she changes form at the end. What you quoted was a fan wiki. We have one of those here as well, the Coppermind, and here's what it says about Venli and Timbre.

Quote

Attributes and Abilities[edit]

Venli is a Radiant, but also has an imprisoned voidspren. She can breathe in Stormlight and switch her eyes from red to normal at will.^[11][expand]

Without textual evidence, from the book itself, to support that she is able to change forms, I'm just not going to believe it. 

[RShara]

Quote

In her mind played the Rhythm of Joy. One of the old rhythms her people had learned long ago—after casting out their gods.

Timbre pulsed from within her. Inside her gemheart.

“I’m still wearing one of their forms,” Venli said. “There was a Voidspren in my gemheart. How?”

Timbre pulsed to Resolve.

“You’ve done what?” Venli hissed, stopping on the deck.

And then a little later

Quote

The Fused boasted from within the captain’s cabin. They talked about next time, promising what they’d do and how they’d win. They spoke of past victories, and subtly hinted at why they’d failed. Too few of them had awakened so far, and those who had awakened were unaccustomed to having physical bodies.

What a strange way to treat a failure. She attuned Appreciation anyway. An old rhythm. She loved being able to hear those again at will—she could attune either old or new, and could make her eyes red, except when she drew in Stormlight. Timbre had granted this by capturing the Voidspren within her.

So it's pretty clear to me that she is still in envoyform, stays in envoyform, and the only difference is she can hear either old or new Rhythms and make her eyes red at will, except when she's holding stormlight.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

I’m going to say this I read the whole chapter on Rlain. And I listened to it on audio .

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell the text does not say that she changes form at the end. What you quoted was a fan wiki. We have one of those here as well, the Coppermind, and here's what it says about Venli and Timbre.

Without textual evidence, from the book itself, to support that she is able to change forms, I'm just not going to believe it. 

Ok now I understand that was fan wiki ! I thought that was canon! So my apologies . I love to theorize and debate . I know RShara from my other group and I have never seen her wrong about anything , lol.  It’s scary how fast she whips out sources. You seem pretty sharp too . Let’s just say I hope there is more to Venli than changing her eye color . I think being able to change forms of power at will makes a willshaper intriguing . Let’s hope we see more in book 4. Anyways nice to meet u Calderis and journey . You guys will probably be seeing a lot of me 

[RShara]

Cal is sneaky and smart.