+Invocation Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Quote Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016) #11 Questioner Who invited Rayse to the Adonalsium-Shattering party? Brandon Sanderson Hehe, you will have to see. That is definitely a RAFO. This makes it sound like perhaps Rayse wasn't supposed to be in a position to absorb a Shard. Maybe he had a grudge against the rest of the Shatterers and snuck his way in, emotions running high enough to alter a certain amount of Intent, making Odium a new Shard and bonding with that newly formed Shard. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 That's one possible explanation... Here's another... Quote Alaxel (Paraphrased) He asked for "Something juicy about Odium that no one knows about yet." Brandon Sanderson Odium and Hoid were once friends. source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Calderis said: That's one possible explanation... Here's another... Rayse and Hoid snuck in to watch the Shattering maybe? Rayse just was really passionate or something and went too close and screwed up the procedure, while Hoid was actually sensible and hung back? Or perhaps Hoid and Rayse were both trying to become Shards and for some reason one of the others became unable to do something, and the group tried to go through with it anyway, despite the pattern of 16 thing (if that existed at that point and wasn't just a by-product of the Shattering) and the remaining 1/16th latched onto Rayse as a conduit. Edited June 21, 2018 by Invocation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 In before dragonsteel makes us follow Hoid and Rayse kinda like Wax&Wayne but alot less goffy while showcasing Rayse as a really awesome character . And then wonder while looking forward during the SA/Mistborn/Elantris timeline and how the storm Rayse become a villain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Yeah, my interpretation of those two Brandon quotes isn't that Rayse wasn't supposed to at the Shattering, but rather that Brandon felt that Rayse being invited by Hoid is a humorous RAFO from his perspective, given we know how much Hoid hates Rayse now and thus it's ironic that they were apparently once friends, and Hoid is responsible for Rayse being there to take up a Shard in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 I think it's the same matter as to why Kelsier and Hoid don't get along. Too similar. And Hoid didn't have to sneak in... Quote The Only Joe (paraphrased) Was Hoid offered one of the Shards we know about? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) You know, I can't remember which Shards I've shown you, Wait, no I haven't shown you that one. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrae Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, goody153 said: In before dragonsteel makes us follow Hoid and Rayse kinda like Wax&Wayne but alot less goffy while showcasing Rayse as a really awesome character . And then wonder while looking forward during the SA/Mistborn/Elantris timeline and how the storm Rayse become a villain I feel like that might would be more fitting with Ati, if Dragonsteel ever showcases him. We know that Ati used to be a kind, caring person, and we all saw how that turned out. I don't think Sanderson would do the same thing with Rayse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 I always got the feeling that Rayse was supposed to be there, and that the others gave him Odium on purpose. Quote He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Arraenae said: I feel like that might would be more fitting with Ati, if Dragonsteel ever showcases him. We know that Ati used to be a kind, caring person, and we all saw how that turned out. I don't think Sanderson would do the same thing with Rayse. I know that Ati as Ruin is a horrible horrible person but if you think about he seems to perceive as he is doing everybody a favor and helping them through their end. It seems like he truly hasn't changed in his core. He just thinks destruction and the end of all things are helpful. As Rayse i was think along the lines of Rayse is similar to Kelsier like poster above said. Kelsier is awesome but is he really a nice kind person ? No, he's extremely manipulative and will trample other people to gain his goals. Like the Lord Ruler, he is also at core a person who enjoys power and wants power who is willing to do things that can be perceived as cruel, destructive or not right despite both of them actually doing things for the greater good(honorable goal) So he might be one of those really interesting and manipulative character like Kelsier who tags along with Hoid. Man can't Dragonsteel come faster. Looks like Sanderson needs to create more persona or spike more writing speed or create more bots whatever he does to achieve the speed of writing he has. Edited June 21, 2018 by goody153 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarShadow Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, RShara said: I always got the feeling that Rayse was supposed to be there, and that the others gave him Odium on purpose. What if Rayse was a picked on person, invited by Hoid to make him feel better. He grew angry with the way that the others treated him after the shattering, and donned Odium. But, that leads into another question if that's correct. Is ascension guided by the power of emotions? Was Rayse feeling of hate what guided the shard to him and was Hoid's passive perspective at the moment that saved him from ascension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, MarShadow said: What if Rayse was a picked on person, invited by Hoid to make him feel better. He grew angry with the way that the others treated him after the shattering, and donned Odium. But, that leads into another question if that's correct. Is ascension guided by the power of emotions? Was Rayse feeling of hate what guided the shard to him and was Hoid's passive perspective at the moment that saved him from ascension? I seem to recall Brandon saying something about Rayse being warrior minded. And I know he's compared him to Vin a few times. I can't see Rayse as ever having been picked on. We don't know when their friendship dissolved, it could have been before the Shattering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 hours ago, RShara said: I seem to recall Brandon saying something about Rayse being warrior minded. And I know he's compared him to Vin a few times. I can't see Rayse as ever having been picked on. We don't know when their friendship dissolved, it could have been before the Shattering. This makes me even more excited for Dragonsteel. What were the motivations behind the shattering? Who was Hoid's master? Was the death of Hoid's master perhaps caused by Rayse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarShadow Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 6 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: Was the death of Hoid's master perhaps caused by Rayse? But what was the motivation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, RShara said: I seem to recall Brandon saying something about Rayse being warrior minded. Brandon said Odium was more warrior-minded than Harmony. But that's somewhat of a low bar, plus it is not clear is Rayse was warrior minded before his ascension. I'm curious if he started out that way, or gained it through the his experience with Odium. Quote Questioner Is Harmony stronger than Odium? Brandon Sanderson Harmony has two shards. So by raw power he is stronger than Odium. Odium is much more warrior-minded and killing-minded, so I don't know if Harmony could actually beat him. But Odium is scared of Harmony. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Wandering Investor said: Brandon said Odium was more warrior-minded than Harmony. But that's somewhat of a low bar, plus it is not clear is Rayse was warrior minded before his ascension. I'm curious if he started out that way, or gained it through the his experience with Odium. I think the "warrior minded" is like how the person thinks, how aggressive he is, how willing he is in a confrontation. Kinda like the difference between Dalinar and Elend in combat, i mean both can fight but only Dalinar is truly a warrior at heart (not in skill basis but how much he is willing to fight and bite). Kinda like how more attuned a prisoner is to confrontation than a normal person. Sazed CAN fight but is it his common method of resolving conflicts ? Isn't it communication ? Isn't he normally diplomatic and would resolve conflicts rather than fight like Kelsier would ? Rayse must truly be much more conflict-driven and really smart before he even held a shard. Meanwhile Sazed is basically a priest or just general servant who basically got the strongest power in the entire cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Don't forget from the letter, quote from Hoid: "Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalaDANG Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Yeah Rayse was obviously a seriously bad dude. We know that he and Hoid were once friends, but now when Hoid talks about him, he talks about how horrible of a person he is. It's kind of confusing, but we know that everyone picked the Shard they got, including Rayse. We also know that Hoid was offered one at some point. We don't know exactly how everything happened because everything is so vague from back then, but we have to assume from the information we have like the letters, that Rayse was INTENDED to take up the Shard of Odium. By the way, on what you said with his emotions running so high that he altered the intent, none of the vessels are strong enough to alter an intent that way, we know that the VESSELS are the ones who get altered. Like Ruin/Ati. There's a lot of speculation as to whether or not the Odium Shard has really changed Rayse, because he was already a horrible person, but he can't alter the intent. Brandon has told us that some of the vessels took part in the shattering because they saw it as their final option, but some of them only wanted power (There's a WoB somewhere...). Rayse was probably one of those power hungry ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envay Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Spoiler Odium considers himself the shard of passion it stands to reason that he chose passion not divine hatred but it’s curious how the choosing of passion translated into odium post shattering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) @Envay Welcome to the Shard! Odium is lying to himself when it comes to his intent, Hoid and Frost both agree that he's 'Hatred' and the former points out that Rayse was loathsome even before he Ascended. Take anything he says with a massive helping of salt. On 6/21/2018 at 0:52 AM, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: Who was Hoid's master? Was the death of Hoid's master perhaps caused by Rayse? The Liar of Partinel samples combined with WoB suggest that the answer to the latter question is a very emphatic 'No'. Hoid is older than the Vessels. Quote William Anderson Who is the oldest character we know? Brandon Sanderson Frost is almost certainly the oldest by a small amount. After that, Hoid. source And to top it off, the Liar sample opened with Hoid's master dying, at which point Rayse hadn't even been born yet. We don't know how much time is going to pass between Liar and Dragonsteel (ages back, Brandon was planning on a gap of about five hundred years) but clearly enough that there's no connection between Rayse and the original Hoid whose name 'our' Hoid has taken. Edited July 12, 2018 by Weltall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm intrigued to see how this all started and what the motivation was (unless I've completely missed this somewhere) to actually shatter Adolnasium and the true intents and purposes of the whole Cosmere. Now that I've caught up with the books it's a painful wait for the next one without having another to fall back on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletSabre Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 If I recall correctly, didn't Hoid say that Ati was "the best of us" and something to the effect of Rayse being amongst the worst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sorana Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ScarletSabre said: If I recall correctly, didn't Hoid say that Ati was "the best of us" and something to the effect of Rayse being amongst the worst? Yes he did, in the epigraphs, part2, way of kings Spoiler It is for the following reason: Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met. Edited July 12, 2018 by Sorana Found the source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Wander89 said: I'm intrigued to see how this all started and what the motivation was (unless I've completely missed this somewhere) to actually shatter Adolnasium and the true intents and purposes of the whole Cosmere. If you've read Mistborn Secret History you've missed nothing, that contains the best explanation we've got so far (ie 'the Vessels' motives varied') and we're not likely to get much more until Dragonsteel comes out. So get comfy, we'll be here a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I also remeber a wob that said some vessels participated for the power, others because they saw it as the last option left to them and there were others with still different motivations. paraphrased bevause I don't have time hunting for the wob at the moment Since we probably won't get definite proof as to what motivated those who didn't see another option until we get Dragonsteel or Mustborn Era 4 we will have to settle for waiting and speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Rhapsody said: I also remeber a wob that said some vessels participated for the power, others because they saw it as the last option left to them and there were others with still different motivations. That's actually not a WoB. That's literally Khriss' description to Kelsier in SH Quote “Anyway, there was a God. Adonalsium. I don’t know if it was a force or a being, though I suspect the latter. Sixteen people, together, killed Adonalsium, ripping it apart and dividing its essence between them, becoming the first who Ascended.” “Who were they?” Kelsier said, trying to make sense of this. “A diverse group,” she said. “With equally diverse motives. Some wished for the power; others saw killing Adonalsium as the only good option left to them. Together they murdered a deity, and became divine themselves.” She smiled in a kindly way, as if to prepare him for what came next. “Two of those created this planet, Survivor, including the people on it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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