20180618 - Changing State v2 - 4850 words - Mandamon

[Mandamon]

Hello all,
Here's the second version of Changing State. Hopefully it addresses the problems from last time (mainly emotional reactions), so tear it apart!

[industrialistDragon]

Wow, talk about the slow weeks! 

Overall, this is much improved over the first version, but it still feels a little dry and emotionless in places. I feel like the first half or so also doesn't do quite as good a job at conveying Moor's character as the back half does. 

 

As I go:

 

I'm gettin gmuch  more of a sense of personality and flavor form the text in this version and I like that a lot!

 

"suicidally reckless" --  I see what you did there. :3  However, it's a bit of a tell-y statement. The notion that Moor is reckless is covered better elsewhere, so this sticks out. 

 

"The scaled robes that one wore " -- There's a little bit of reader confusion when the text switches from "Eff" to "that one." At least here in the beginning, it might need something to define "that one" -- maybe just like "the Eff, caretaker of the N, as that one"? It's a bit redundant, but I feel like there needs to be some kind of connection between Eff, "caretaker," and "that one," especially if the caretaker epithet is also going to be used. It's handled better below (and the use of "that one" is just fine in the other instances in the back half of the story), but it did take me most of a page to get it all sorted out.

 

I'm still a little unclear why Moor's been chosen for this, and what's up with the creatures from the Eff's descriptions. Couldn't the job have been done just as well or better by sending a pair of experienced majii? Why is the Eff in on this anyway? I thought two house people were secret, or is that just the secret society? Also, fridge thought, why is the Eff giving the assignment and the Councilor the one to take the debriefing? Shouldn't that seem weird to Moor at the end? 

 

"thick purple blood" -- I would just like to point out that I have a plant whose sap is bright, ruby red. When I cut it, the sap looks remarkably like blood. (It's a philodendron erubescens if you're interested)

 

The scene with the child is much clearer, however, I still picked up some hesitancy to go all-out creepy on it. My vote is to do it! describe the "something unnatural" that happens and if it's too far, then you can walk it back. I do like the greater emphasis on decisions and on actually trying to do something.  It's tough, since Moor is basically fighting to keep to a standstill, but it's reading better than the first version because we actually see Moor struggle. I especially like that freeing themself cost Moor so much, but I'm still not really getting the sense that this was an especially traumatizing event, though. And I think it's supposed to be? Like, a defining event of some kind for Moor, since it appears to have so much influence on them the 300-odd years later when we see him next? Knowing the other story, it feels like this should be, however, just going by what's on the page here, it's creepy, sure, and disturbing, yes, but I don't really get from it that it'll have a lasting impact on Moor's personality, if that makes any sense? 

 

I like the recruitment speech better as well. it jives more with the story and foreshadows a bit more Moor's personality later on. I'm wondering now, since the infrastructure theme seems to have been largely dropped, if the infodump about the trade wars is still necessary? It reads pretty well without it.  If the desire is to foreshadow Moor wanting two houses to do social work instead of the purely defensive/military bent the other councilor seems to have, then maybe instead of the trade politics, Moor could pick up more of the inequalities between their own magi living areas and the squalor of the docks? Something about asking about the disparity and being brushed off because the other races just assume that any city of a certain size will have a vagrant or transient population? Something something idealism something something you Bens don't know how the real world works? Something something what could you possibly do about it/then change the system from within?

But I mean, it also works fine without.  

 

[Mandamon]

Thanks @industrialistDragon! Very helpful as always.

16 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

"suicidally reckless" --  I see what you did there. :3  However, it's a bit of a tell-y statement. The notion that Moor is reckless is covered better elsewhere, so this sticks out.

Fair enough ;-) Thanks for the idea, though!

16 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

There's a little bit of reader confusion when the text switches from "Eff" to "that one."

Yeah, this is hard for me to get to read correctly. I'll take another whack at it.

16 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I would just like to point out that I have a plant whose sap is bright, ruby red

Cool!

16 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I especially like that freeing themself cost Moor so much, but I'm still not really getting the sense that this was an especially traumatizing event, though.

I'll take another look at this too, and see if I can punch it up a bit.

[Robinski]

Comments...

I don't understand this thing about testing the Ben, and being set up for failure.

Three-ish pages in, and I must say I'm not exactly gripped by the situation. You mention M's career being at stake, but I'm not sure how invested i am in that, especially given that I know how it turns out (in the long term).

"It was filthy" - Eh, what, why? Where has this come from? I've had no sense that M was het up about social injustice. It's not been a theme in Society, as far as I remember, or a facet of their character anywhere that I can remember.

"They would have appreciated the architecture, if it had been made of something more resilient than warped wood" - Huh? This seems highly improbable to me. The archetecture will be severly limited by the warped materials, which will lose a massive amount of integrity surely. I'm just not convinced that something archetecturally significant could be made from it.

"They would prove their worth to the E and to Councilor F." - I like this, but ending on the socialites felt like ending on the least important bit.

"There is a danger to the Imp." - Is there? Why? I don't see this.

"had never heard such changes" - Having been faced with O's drains, and P's genetic engineering, I'm still not seeing the threat on an Imperium scale. I think this needs more selling.

For me, things really start to motor on Page 9, and started to pick up into that section when they went into the house.

"This is how three Symphonies interact under one influence" - Not in all cases though, surely. Has none ever survived beyond infanthood?

This is a great parting shot (from the house), but I wasn't clear if the parent was dead. M didn't make any effort to save them, but I feel I don't have closure on that aspect.

How does M know that the child is 'transformed' (sic) somewhere else?

"What if it returns?" - Dun, dun, DUNNNN!!!! (Future villain!!!!!!)

"One is eager to learn more of this one’s offer" - I feel like the end has lost some of its snap. Was there mention of 'a society' before? Did it finished on a line of dialogue? (Checks... it did.) I felt like the last version of the last line was better (Checks... it's the same!). Okay, will in that case I think the last line could be stronger, and leave me with more of a glow.

In summary, I think this is certainly better, but could be punched up more in some places. I'm fine once we get to the house, then the ending might be punched up some more. The opening scenes, I think, need greater stakes, or more paranoia, or something.

Still, I did enjoy reading it more this time, I think.

<R>

[Mandamon]

Thanks @Robinski!

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I'm fine once we get to the house, then the ending might be punched up some more. The opening scenes, I think, need greater stakes, or more paranoia, or something.

Yep. Seems like the beginning is still the weak point, and maybe a few more sentences at the end.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I don't understand this thing about testing the Ben, and being set up for failure.

This may just need to go.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

Three-ish pages in, and I must say I'm not exactly gripped by the situation. You mention M's career being at stake, but I'm not sure how invested i am in that, especially given that I know how it turns out (in the long term).

Hopefully I can make this more tense if I make the opening work better.

Going to work on this some tomorrow, and hopefully tie it up.

[shatteredsmooth]

Take my comments with a grain of salt since I'm not familiar with the novel and universe this is story was associated with:

The magic system in this story is truly fascinating! I love the symphonies and their manifestations in the physical world. The character and their reactions were consistent and well developed, but this piece doesn’t really seem to be working as a stand-alone that could be read separate from your novels.

I read the very end of one of them, if I am not mistaken, but otherwise, I haven’t read them, and with this story, I felt like there was something missing that you were already assuming I knew or had, and it wasn’t necessarily about the magic system, more like the culture of the world and the history of the characters.

As far as plot and pacing go, I had a hard time with the opening since it was mostly dialogue – characters telling other characters about things that are happening and what needs to be done. The story could probably work without it.

The next scene seems internal thought paired world building and description that don’t end up being all the relevant to what actually happens. The point I became engaged at was when they noticed the transforming plant. From there on, I was fascinated as the character investigated, struggled, and survived.

The one place I was thrown out of the story was the parents reaction to him showing up. If this had been going on for ten days, and one parent had left and come back, why not seek help? And when a random stranger walks in, why assume they can help?

The way the MC survived was a bit of a let down. They held out until the infant basically destroyed itself and had almost given up.  They didn’t over come anything. The infant just happened to give up or die or lose interest before it was too late. So survival wasn’t really because of something the mc learned or did.

Then at the end, it was the council of people who talk a lot, and the mc was invited to and accepted the invitation to join some research project.

But the character didn’t change, and the story didn’t feel complete or resolved – more like it was leading up to another section, or to a novel. I think If I had read the novels, and was going back to this as a prequel, the end would probably work a lot better. But as it is, the end falls flat for me since I’m not super invested in the world.

[Mandamon]

Thanks @shatteredsmooth! 

This is pretty tightly tied to a novella, so I'm not as concerned about missing worldbuilding here.

However, good points on the rest. they seem to line up with the other critiques and I've got a few ideas on how to change it around.

1 hour ago, shatteredsmooth said:

The next scene seems internal thought paired world building and description that don’t end up being all the relevant to what actually happens.

Good point here. I can probably cut this down a lot since I took some of the followup with this section out of the end.

[kais]

I'm going to blame surgery for having no memory of v1. Going in cold...

Overall

Generally, I liked this. I thought M could use more wonder, especially, but the descriptions and world were immersive and the pacing excellent. 

On 6/24/2018 at 4:00 PM, industrialistDragon said:

I still picked up some hesitancy to go all-out creepy on it. My vote is to do it!

I second this!

As I go

- if M is a sentient tree I am so on board for this

- page one: ooh, I love the genderless language M uses! Very in character

- page three: I feel like we missed the opening chapter of this story. I think I need a little more grounding with M, and new readers might need a bit more grounding in the Ari. I connect with the story because how well I know the world, but even then I'm being driven by an interest in the Ari, not in M

- page four: I have so many questions about what M looks like. Could we get a tight description earlier on?

- page four: trees, for the record, have a very acute sense of smell

- page 7: okay so I'm full of wonder, but M isn't. Since you're doing so well coding them as a tree (I think), you might consider having the reactions be like some specific species of tree (or anthropomorphized versions). Could M grow spines? If they have leaves, could they curl in? Shoot poisonous extractives by accident (ah those silly vestigial evolutionary things from before one was sentient!)?

- page 7: Lumber does not hiss and screech. It definitely does under heat and pressure, especially if water is involved!

- page 13: oh this is the story with the infant! I do remember!

[Mandamon]

Thanks @kais!

Comments fit pretty well with some changes I made, so hopefully the final version works better!