[OB] Nightblood’s Extra Oomph

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Origins of Nightblood;

       Vashur came into the house after. 5 years and all he could think of is rest ! He sat a cage with a diminutive creature on the table. “ where have you been “a feminine Voice Called from the Shadows. Shashara came in and sat at the table staring at the creature.  “I have been on planet Called Roshar , I was there for years learning all I could about Stormlight and Shardblades! During my whole time there I was able to sustain myself of stormlight , I didn’t have to harvest any Bio chroma. “Interesting Shashara said , so why the pet?” Vashur sighed , “ It feeds of any type of investiture , it’s like us , I wondered if we could figure out how it did it , perhaps we wouldn’t have to harvest breaths to survive” Sashara pondered this , “ should she tell Vasur about what she has been up to in his absence . Silverlight University was very informative . Her friend Khriss had told her about a macabre practice on Scadrial involving spiking creatures to steal there abilities ? No she thought this could wait she hadn’t seen her husband in 5 years.....

       a few weeks later the villagers brought a returned man to her house , he was confused and didn’t know what to do to survive ? An idea sprung up in Shashara mind “ come in sir I can help you” she gave him milk of the poppy so she could sleep as he lay on the table she pulled out a finely crafted sword and breathed in a the command she had been thinking of for years “ Destroy Evil” and released 1000 breaths . She immediately slammed the blade thru the Larkin and into the man chest and out the other side ... did she do it , did it work . Black smoke oozed from the blade . The Larkin and the man were no more, she slammed the blade into a sheeth as Vashur walked in . Husband I have just done something wonderful , and now I know how I’ll make more . Vashur looked for his larkin , for the. Returned man who the villagers told him arrived at his house , they were no more. Vashur drew his sword and plunged it into Shasara heart “ I can’t let you make more of these , I’m .... I’m sorry .. 

     suddenly a voice popped in his head , hellloooooo! I’m Nightblood “ “ would you like to destroy some evil “

 

 please don’t sue me I’m just having fun

Edited June 26, 2018 by SzethIsBadAsHell

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Ok all joking aside , does anybody wonder why Nightblood oozes black smoke? Black is all colors combined , I just wonder if that’s what it is but I also wonder if Nightblood is akin to the Wraiths of threnody!!!

Edited June 26, 2018 by SzethIsBadAsHell

[IllNsickly]

5 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Ok all joking aside , does anybody wonder why Nightblood oozes black smoke? Black is all colors combined , I just wonder if that’s what it is but I also wonder if Nightblood is akin to the Wraiths of threnody!!!

Hmm... 

White is all colors in the light spectrum combined. This way of looking at it, Black is simply the absence of light. Or perhaps It is simply not reflecting any light back, absorbing any light in proximity.

It has been a while since I read Warbreaker, so you might be closer with the simple mixing of colors. I just assumed it was something to do with light and didn’t give it much thought.

[Journey Before Pancakes]

28 minutes ago, IllNsickly said:

Hmm... 

White is all colors in the light spectrum combined. This way of looking at it, Black is simply the absence of light. Or perhaps It is simply not reflecting any light back, absorbing any light in proximity.

It has been a while since I read Warbreaker, so you might be closer with the simple mixing of colors. I just assumed it was something to do with light and didn’t give it much thought.

With Bio-Chroma, it seems as though they consider black to be more colourful than white.  You get the most colour from black when you use it to awaken; and white can't be used.

It makes sense in-universe; since things like paintings and dyes work on Subtractive colour, where black is the combination of primary colours.  Considering that the manifestation of Endowment seems to be through the Tears of Edgil and the associated dyes; it makes a lot of sense.  Especially since cosmere magic is perception/intention based, so with all their focus on dyes and painting, they would see black as more colourful and therefore it would provide more colour.

[Scion of the Mists]

Hi @SzethIsBadAsHell.  You have some interesting ideas about Nightblood's creation. 

It's helpful to review the Site Rules so that you don't unintentionally break them.  Specifically, see the sections regarding capitalization/punctuation and double posting.  

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

17 hours ago, RShara said:

asher had only been to the Physical Realm of two planets, Roshar and Nalthis.

Vasher ended up killing Shashara because she wanted to mass-produce swords like Nightblood. That means it would need to be made of materials readily available and obtainable, otherwise mass producing wouldn't be a viable option. I don't think Vasher would have killed his wife on the chance that she'd be able to get butt-loads of a metal that can only be obtained on another planet and is rare and supremely expensive even there. I'm not sure there was even enough atium in existence to mass-produce swords like Nightblood.

I agree with Rshara the sword had to be able to be mass produced . There had to a danger of two many people having this that would make him kill his own wife

(OB) spoilers

Syl says to Kaladin everything has a spren ; even your spears and some of them are male and female !

 

We learned in OB that higher spren Like Syl are cognitive entities created by Investiture. 

We saw rock put out a snack of rocks for the honor spren and one spren ate the investiture 

We know Nightblood was fashioned after the Shardblades on Roshar .

We know that items that are more human like or once lived are easier to awaken 

We know u have to be of the 9th heightening to awaken metal since it never lived . 

So how did she create Nightblood 

What if she didn’t awaken the sword , but the spren of the sword. She gave it investiture , a complex mental command to cut thru anything and draw out it’s investiture to feed itself.

In doing so Shashara awakened the spren of the sword and told him his primary purpose was to destroy evil .She told him he could cut thru anything but Alumininum and that aluminun quelled his powers! 

The sword Awakened like Syl , not very smart at first . The sword is capable of growth but since it is a sub spren it can only comprehend so much. 

But like Syl it can talk to its user and others it seems interesting . 

[Spoolofwhool]

17 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

What if she didn’t awaken the sword , but the spren of the sword. She gave it investiture , a complex mental command to cut thru anything and draw out it’s investiture to feed itself.

In doing so Shashara awakened the spren of the sword and told him his primary purpose was to destroy evil .She told him he could cut thru anything but Alumininum and that aluminun quelled his powers! 

That's essentially what she did. Awakening to create an entity which is analogous to a spren, bound to the sword.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

analogous

 

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

That's essentially what she did. Awakening to create an entity which is analogous to a spren, bound to the sword.

I’m not so sure . Lets look at a Lifeless ; she is essentially animating a corpse. The Corpse cannot speak . It follows simple commands etc etc . A sword was never alive , doesn’t have humonoid features or animal like features . There is no logical reason Nightblood should be able to speak unless she awakened something that was once alive . A huge clue to Nightblood. Creation is Shallan I am a stick moment! 

So yes I Believe. Nightblood is a sword that was forged on Roshar . It had a spren inside like all things from that planet , but it was a sub spren . Like the one that repeats I am a stick. It was taken back to Nalthis as a normal sword where Shashara invested it . To make more she only has to go get more normal weapons from Roshar and command them to destroy evil , and imagine them being able to cut thru anything but Aluminum . Aluminum is important because u need a way to stop the investiture drain of the weapon .  

[Calderis]

@SzethIsBadAsHell I think you misunderstood @Spoolofwhool

In Awakening, if you make something sentient, your are essentially creating a "spren" that is the soul of that thing. 

It wouldn't be "Awakening" an actual spren. Spren are already living investiture.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

So yes I Believe. Nightblood is a sword that was forged on Roshar . It had a spren inside like all things from that planet , but it was a sub spren .

I think the Rosharan general belief that everything has a spren is only technically correct, while their actual outlook is incorrect. Spren are essentially realmatic entities which embody certain concept due to their existence in the cognitive realm with little connection to the physical realm. Therefore, at the most basic level, they can just be considered souls. Hence, Rosharans are technically correct in that everything has a soul, and therefore everything essentially has a spren. However, generally speaking they are incorrect because what they think of as sprens aren't really entirely similar to the souls of everyday objects. As such, there would probably be effectively little difference between a steel sword made on Nalthis and a steel sword made on Roshar outside of a few weird investiture connection differences with probably insignificant effects. At the end of the day, the awakening of Nightblood amounted to binding investiture to the object and its soul and elevating to a a realmatic state which is similar to the state that the spren usually exist at. 

[Ripheus23]

I don't think they've explained how Nahel-bonded spren can manifest in the Physical Realm as metallic weapons, have they? Maybe we've gotten outlines... But so Nightblood would have been an attempt to turn something, presumably widely available on Nalthis, into a Shardweapon.

Random notion: Nightblood is an anti-perpendicularity. Like a black hole in all three Realms. (Maybe he's an example of the kind of weapon that was made against Adonalsium...)

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell I think you misunderstood @Spoolofwhool

In Awakening, if you make something sentient, your are essentially creating a "spren" that is the soul of that thing. 

It wouldn't be "Awakening" an actual spren. Spren are already living investiture.

Ok the thing that is bothering me about normal awakened items ; Lifeless , Cloaks , and the stickman is that none of them spoke despite having sentience . None of them communicated telepathically ! When Shallan tried to soulcast the stick bead it spoke to her. This lets me deduce Two things : inanimate objects on Roshar that have a spren are used to communicating. And adding Investiture to an item here will have greater effects than awakening an item on Nalthis that never has seen itself as anything . Maybe I’m saying or explaining this wrong , but I strongly feel this is a clue . If there is no difference , then why don’t the lifeless speak , why doesn’t Vashur cloak talk, they have sentience . Why do all the items on Roshar argue back with Jasnah and Shallan when they try and soulcast them ? I think When Syl said everything has a spren , i think she was giving us a clue about Life on Roshar. Maybe it’s Cultivation influence On items from Roshar ; but I think she was telling the truth!

Edited June 27, 2018 by SzethIsBadAsHell

[Calderis]

11 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Ok the thing that is bothering me about normal awakened items ; Lifeless , Cloaks , and the stickman is that none of them spoke despite having sentience . None of them communicated telepathically !

None of those were type IVs. They're simply awakened objects following a command. They can't think for themselves. 

11 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

When Shallan tried to soulcast the stick bead it spoke to her. This lets me deduce Two things : inanimate objects on Roshar that have a spren are used to communicating. And adding Investiture to an item here will have greater effects than awakening an item on Nalthis that never has seen itself as anything .

If you were to go to the Cognitive Realm and attempt to soulcast them on any other world they would act in the same manner. Just as Shai speaks in TES about how objects perceive themselves. 

The Cognitive aspects of inanimate objects, the stick and the ship included, do not have a true mind, but a Cognitive construct created by the perception and connection to the world around them. They are not capable of true independent thought. 

11 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Maybe I’m saying or explaining this wrong , but I strongly feel this is a clue . If there is no difference , then why don’t the lifeless speak , why doesn’t Vashur cloak talk, they have sentience .

All awakened objects, save lifeless, do not have sentience. Lifeless function differently due to the memory of life in their Spiritual Aspect, so they are much more in line with what your thinking, but even they are severely limited. 

11 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Why do all the items on Roshar argue back with Jasnah and Shallan when they try and soulcast them ?

Because they are being interacted with in the Cognitive Realm. In secret history, 

Spoiler

Kelsier, with no access to Investiture or powers that grant the ability to directly interface with the Cognitive aspects of the items he picks up, still gets a feeling for the desires of those objects. 

 

11 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I think When Syl everything has a spren , i think she was giving us a clue about Life on Roshar. Maybe it’s Cultivation influence. On items from Roshar but I think she was telling the truth!

She was telling the truth as it's understood on Roshar. The term "spren" is entirely to broad. It encapsulates anything made of investiture, including the souls of objects. It would include the souls of people as well. I'm sure they would classify a Cognitive Shadow as a spren. 

Typically when we use the term spren, we're referring to a Splinter. That is not the same thing. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Calderis

[TheHeadHancho]

I was thinking hard about the visualization aspect of awakening and, more specifically, why this could cause Nightblood to absorb so much investiture.

I think that the idea Shashara had as she created Nightblood was complete and total eradication of the enemy. This means destroying someone across all realms, wiping them from existence. Now, as we know, investiture resists investiture; this is a key rule that governs the Cosmere. In order to accomplish the task given to him, Nightblood not only has to tear the spiritweb, an entity in the spiritual realm made out of investiture, but also act across the three realms at once, like a perpendicularity, fuzzing the borders between them. This would take a whole lot of investiture, I’d say.

Also, the black, corrupt investiture he leaks could be the result of the original investiture used mingling with whatever investiture makes up the spirit web and borders between realms.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 8:32 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Origins of Nightblood;

Holy crap, that is some funny rust brother!

I upvoted a couple of your other posts because the idea of Nightblood being created by plunging a sword through a Larkin and an insensate returned was so freaking good.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

5 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Holy crap, that is some funny rust brother!

I upvoted a couple of your other posts because the idea of Nightblood being created by plunging a sword through a Larkin and an insensate returned was so freaking good.

Thanks it just made sense that it had to have some abilities like the Larkin that can eat any type of investiture . But , what makes sense to me , the wise think is crazy . Glad u enjoyed it

[TheHeadHancho]

;

Edited June 29, 2018 by TheHeadHancho