[OB] Could Adolin become Odium’s Champion?

[Odin1981]

He might not want to be king but he is the eldest son. On to your 3rd sentence he has spoken no words.

[Angsos]

Yes but wouldn't they have offered him the crown before settling on Jasnah. I'm just going by the society and non-figure head kingship in the real world. I don't recall a scene in OB where the decision was explained because in shadesmar Adolin thinks he'll be king. Maybe they just picked before they found out Adolin wasn't really dead?

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Angsos said:

Yes but wouldn't they have offered him the crown before settling on Jasnah. I'm just going by the society and non-figure head kingship in the real world. I don't recall a scene in OB where the decision was explained because in shadesmar Adolin thinks he'll be king. Maybe they just picked before they found out Adolin wasn't really dead?

It's one of the last scenes of the book. Adolin tells Dalinar he doesn't want to be king, and that he killed Sadeas. 

Shallan says she has an idea... Scene break to Sabarial and Palona, and queen Jasnah bursting in. 

[Vissy]

Yeah, Adolin won't be a king. It does lead the question open, though... if Adolin won't become King, what kind of a role is he going to fill in the future? Lift's squire or something?

[goody153]

57 minutes ago, Vissy said:

Yeah, Adolin won't be a king. It does lead the question open, though... if Adolin won't become King, what kind of a role is he going to fill in the future? Lift's squire or something?

The man beside the main protagonist. That's his role and has been so far. He's the normal guy(as normal as it would ever get) with the good guys which appreciated so that we don't get too desynthesized with the Radiants allure. 

Not every character close to the main ones has to have some pivotal role or some change of heart into the enemy side since Stormlight is gonna look like a soap opera that way instead of a epic high fantasy. 

If there was ever gonna be a Odium's champion even the less likely ones(Moash/Mr. T) are more likely than Adolin as the champion of Odium. 

[Vissy]

18 minutes ago, goody153 said:

The man beside the main protagonist. That's his role and has been so far. He's the normal guy(as normal as it would ever get) with the good guys which appreciated so that we don't get too desynthesized with the Radiants allure. 

Not every character close to the main ones has to have some pivotal role or some change of heart into the enemy side since Stormlight is gonna look like a soap opera that way instead of a epic high fantasy. 

If there was ever gonna be a Odium's champion even the less likely ones(Moash/Mr. T) are more likely than Adolin as the champion of Odium. 

I'm entirely serious about him becoming Lift's squire - I see that as a possibility. 

[goody153]

1 minute ago, Vissy said:

I'm entirely serious about him becoming Lift's squire - I see that as a possibility. 

That has equal chance of him becoming a edgedancer not through squireship too. 

[Calderis]

OK. The "too many Kholin's" argument, and the "we need a normal perspective" argument both, in my opinion, ignore some things. 

The desolations are going to make it so that if you don't have power, you better be fighting people without powers too, but when a magic fight, or a Thunderclasts, or an Unmade sweep through you're screwed. 

More spren will bond, more squires will be made, and most of this is going to center around Urithiru. At their height the Radiants numbered in the thousands.

Now add in that Rial's bridge team became squires to Teft.. If Lopen picks up another bridge crew as his squires, and if bridge crews still number about 40 people, then between Kal, Teft and Lopen, we're going to have over 120 people with Windrunner powers alone. 

Between increasing numbers of Radiants, the escalating threat of the desolations, and the fragility of regular humans leading to massive casualties, I fully see a point in the future where there are more people in Urithiru with powers than without. 

[CrazyRioter]

I don't find a "token normal" character that interesting, personally, and I don't think Adolin's character arc is pointing in that direction, with the interesting things happening with regard to Maya.

If there's going to be "normal" Kholin it will probably be Navani.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

I was about to create  a thread about this but I searched it first to see if anyone had thought of it! While what got me started was the comment about being born under sign of the nine. There are other things that support this . Kaladin saw a figure of Odiums champion which had 9 shadows. The fact that Adolin is the one person Dalinar cannot Just kill Without conscious . So it all falls down to why ? Why would Adolin go against his farther ; It Seems unconscionable right . Adolin does not know his father is responsible for his mother death. What do u think would happen if he found out. Then imagine Shallan and Kaladin hook up . Could this be enough to send him to the dark side ? 

[Vissy]

Well, it's a plotline that pretty much everyone can see coming as evidenced here. But there is one very strong and overriding reason for why Adolin cannot become Odium's Champion. He just has no reason to. Everyone he cares about is against Odium. Everyone he loves and everyone he has ever done anything for is against Odium. Standing with Odium would mean betraying them all. Unless Adolin collapses completely, like drunk Dalinar but 10x worse, he will never fall. The most that will come out of this, in my own opinion, is Odium trying to tempt Adolin through some means and Adolin ending up growing as a person from that ordeal and completely rejecting Big O. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Vissy

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

Did you give any consideration to the two stressors I theorized in my post above. You don’t think him finding out how his mother died could turn him against his father? What about Shallan and Kaladin becoming intimate? That’s usually enough to break some men ? I don’t want Adolin to go o Odium ; but , It could happen if he felt betrayed dont u think ?

[Angsos]

Kaladin I don't think would let that happen, plus pattern and syl would go nuts, especially pattern with no mating. Shallan could also go nuts and Kaladin won't need to be on guard. I don't think it will happen but I could see Adolin doing something stupid in the heat of anger

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Did you give any consideration to the two stressors I theorized in my post above. You don’t think him finding out how his mother died could turn him against his father? What about Shallan and Kaladin becoming intimate? That’s usually enough to break some men ? I don’t want Adolin to go o Odium ; but , It could happen if he felt betrayed dont u think ?

Dalinar is literally writing and releasing a book detailing his past. If he hid that, and Adolin discovered it on his own, it would be very very rough for them, yes. That's not what's happening though. There will still be strain, but the fact that Evi's death was not an intentional murder, it broke Dalinar enough to send him to the Nightwatcher where he literally forgot that he did it, and once remembering his response is not to hide it but take responsibility and tell the world? No I don't think it will be a long term issue. 

As to the Kaladin and Shallan thing... I seriously doubt that it will happen, no matter how many people want it to. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Calderis

[hypatia]

Whereas I believe/hope there will be an interesting plot when Adolin knows the truth about his mother - Evi wasn't just his mother. The some can be said about Renarin.

Frankly - I hope for some distress between father and sons for the plots sake, but for one of the sons to side with the being who had driven Dalinar to this point?

Siding with the one who wants to kill Renarin? Shallan? Navani? Kaladin? And..and..and..?

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

50 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Dalinar is literally writing and releasing a book detailing his past. If he hid that, and Adolin discovered it on his own, it would be very very rough for them, yes. That's not what's happening though. There will still be strain, but the fact that Evi's death was not an intentional murder, it broke Dalinar enough to send him to the Nightwatcher where he literally forgot that he did it, and once remembering his response is not to hide it but take responsibility and tell the world? No I don't think it will be a long term issue. 

As to the Kaladin and Shallan thing... I seriously doubt that it will happen, no matter how many people want it to. 

Well when I looked at this issue , I worked backwards. I saw what I thought was a Chekhov pistol concerning Adolin being born under sign of the nine. Since 9 is Odium number similar to how 16 is Preservations number I got worried. Like you I thought Adolin has no reason to betray his father . So then I looked for possible arcs that could turn him against Dalinar? I hope he doesn’t ! I want him to revive Maya ! But if he did that would be very very bad!

[Vissy]

"Veil" is still going to be making eyes at Kaladin, I'm sure of that. Adolin won't be bothered by it anymore, because he knows the "real" Shallan now. Or what he sees as the core of her personality, anyway. I have no doubt that there's going to be more Adolin / Shallan / Kaladin drama in Book 4, but I don't think it's going to affect Adolin that drastically if it indeed does happen.

[Leyrann]

It would be fun if Shallan would end up making a real, autonomous Veil that could be with Kaladin while Shallan herself gets to be with Adolin.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

On 6/22/2018 at 1:32 AM, Leyrann said:

It would be fun if Shallan would end up making a real, autonomous Veil that could be with Kaladin while Shallan herself gets to be with Adolin.

I have been saying the same thing in my head.. over and over. Shallan is going to split into two people. And Veil is going to make a beeline to Kaladin and jump his bones, watch!!

[Vissy]

Keep in mind that Shallan's deterioration has halted by the end of Oathbringer. It's unlikely that she's going to get any worse in Book 4 (discounting any possible temporary collapses, followed by great strides forward, that might be a part of her character arc). 

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

1 hour ago, Vissy said:

Keep in mind that Shallan's deterioration has halted by the end of Oathbringer. It's unlikely that she's going to get any worse in Book 4 (discounting any possible temporary collapses, followed by great strides forward, that might be a part of her character arc). 

Her mental deteriation might be in check , I think eventually she might snack on the Old Kaladin fruit anyways . If she does it might not lead toAdolin loosing his conviction. But boy if it does ...ooh wee!

[CrazyRioter]

I don't think Kaladin would be down for that. He respects Adolin and the marriage too much.

[Katy]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:27 AM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I was about to create  a thread about this but I searched it first to see if anyone had thought of it! While what got me started was the comment about being born under sign of the nine. There are other things that support this . Kaladin saw a figure of Odiums champion which had 9 shadows. The fact that Adolin is the one person Dalinar cannot Just kill Without conscious . So it all falls down to why ? Why would Adolin go against his farther ; It Seems unconscionable right . Adolin does not know his father is responsible for his mother death. What do u think would happen if he found out. Then imagine Shallan and Kaladin hook up . Could this be enough to send him to the dark side ? 

I too have wondered what Adolin will do in light of the true reason behind his mothers death. And I have a couple theories. 

1. Adolin accepts it, moves on, sees his father has changed (I dearly hope it isn’t this route as I find it unrealistic)

2. Adolin pulls erm. A Shallan. He “accepts it” when in reality, he doesn’t want to think about it. The man he idealized, killed his MOM?? And burned an innocent city down! I can see him tossing it to the side, trying to pretend like it didn’t happen, and continue on his way. After all, he’s always been strong all his life, and if he could forgive his father for being inactive, he can for this right? But really this suppressing of feelings, will lead to a meltdown or breaking point. I can see this as he’s seen quietly dealing with his problems, and potentially pushing them aside for the sake of others. 

3. He can’t forgive his father. He feels embarrassed he idealized the man who killed his mother, and can’t believe he didn’t piece it together before. I can see him going into a deep withdrawal phase, and start avoiding others (as to avoid getting hurt). Maybe he’ll go off on his own, to think about things, and reevaluate everything. 

4. He goes off the deep end, and plans revenge on his father. Like how he was protecting his father when killing Sadeas, maybe the same line of thought will go into killing his dad? 

 

Personally I can see all these situations. There’s evidence in the text for each of these. With how Brandon treats Adolin, 1. Is very likely. With how he puts blind trust in people, and is constantly taking care of others I can see number 2 also. Number 3. could also be a possibility. He seems to solve all his problems on his own, and sometimes when people are an extreme and that extreme hurts them, they turn to the other extreme. I can additionally see number 4, as with Adolin, he does have a dark side, and has zero problem killing if he deems it necessary (we see this in war and Sadeas’s murder). Anyway those are my four predictions. 

As for Kaladin and Shallan hooking up, while I can see Shallan doing that, I definitely can’t see Kaladin. He values Adolins friendship too much, and is way too loyal. Don’t think Kaladin could hurt any of his friends like that. 

[+Sorana]

I really hope that the whole Shallan can't decide between Kaladin and Adolin is more or less over. Of course Veil will still take a good look at Kaladin and yes, she can (and maybe should) question herself about her decision. But I really hope she will stick with it and the big problem is over.

I see how important it was for Shallan to think about both of them and question their viewpoint and decide witch way to go - for me Kaladin and Adolin were like symbols for her crossroads. But now she decided and can move forward. There's so much happening I personally don't need every Shallan chapter being about the two men with the consequences that has on both of them. Don't get me wrong I do like an interesting romance, but I feel like she should fokus on making things work with Adolin.

Back to Adolin. Of course everybody can be broken, but I think it highly unlikely that he will leave everybody behind and become Odium's Champion. He seems to loyal for that. Even if he is broken e.g. for finding out what happend to his mother, I think he'll be able to pull it back together, maybe with a little help by a then better Shallan?

[Storyspren]

Adolin has to die. He's too perfect. No way he becomes Odium's champion. His whole job is to be perfect, then die.