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[OB] Could Adolin become Odium’s Champion?


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1 hour ago, Ishar said:

Well, I doubt Adolin will become Odiums champion, mainly because there isn’t much hate involved where Adolin is concerned. I feel that most of the signs are definetly pointing at Moash ending up with that position, but it seems a little to obvious.

 

P.S. 16 is not Preservations number. 16 is just an altogether very important number in the cosmere, what with 16 shards etc.

WRONG TYPE OF TOO! (It's an inside joke between Ishar and me. Just ignore that.)

 

I think that's how Sanderson might troll us— Moash seems too obvious, and therefore, we overlook him. Moash is in too deep to redeem himself, so he's on the track of becoming the Champion. 

(A wild Evi appears, alive and totally not dead. Turns out she's Odium's champion, because, why not? :P)

But about Maya— what kind of spren was she before getting turned into a Shardblade? Are all Shardblades made from Highspren? What if Maya is a type of Highspren that isn't one that bonds with Radiants, but she bonds with Adolin anyway? Would that make a new type of Radiant?

...that was a lot of questions. If anyone has a WoB, Coppermind Article, Arcanum discussion, etc., please post them!

 

@Angsos, I think that Taravangian is going to be a major player for Team Odium. However, I don't think he would be the Champion, due to the fact that he is old and feeble. I think there will be a younger champion, and Taravangian will do a lot of behind the scenes stuff. I think he will definitely die before the first plot arc is over, though.

Edited by Ashspren
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2 hours ago, IllNsickly said:

Odium has already chosen his Champion, though.

And in choosing Dalinar, things went terribly wrong for him. 

Does Odium get a Do-Over?

Odium chose a champion, who declined. 

Either he gets to choose again, or Dalinar already won. Pretty sure we know which way that falls. 

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Odium chose a champion, who declined. 

Either he gets to choose again, or Dalinar already won. Pretty sure we know which way that falls. 

I'm just thinking this now, but maybe Odium will try a different method, and decide that the duel of champions didn't work?  If he was betting all his money on Dalinar, and Dalinar triumphed against him, then he might just try something else.  Although the duel of champions has been teased since WoK, I believe, so I do think it's unlikely (but perhaps it was only introduced as a way for Dalinar to triumph over Odium and take control of his tortured past - Odium's "champion" was only ever the shadow of Dalinar, and now that Dalinar has beaten the duel of champions, it might not come up again in the series).  

Edited by Llarimar
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Over all I don't think Odium will get another chance to choose a champion - the rule seems to be one champion for every side and whoever wins gets the price.

For me the new plan is about the elemination of the Heralds - this starts right after the fight in Thaylen-City - and perhaps an attack on Cultivation.

But even without the need for a champion, Odium's position will be stronger the more humans will get under his influence.

Adolin doesn't look like a easy target - he isn't after the power, he isn't plotting, at the moment there is nearly nothing Odium can work with.

Nontheless there is something that is able to change the game for Adolin - the truth about the death of his mother.

At the moment he believes Evi was kidnapped and killed by the Rathalanians, but this isn't what really had happened.At the moment Adolin believes in his father, like Amaram had believed in the Almighty. Bad things can happen when a believe is destroyed, but over all this will depend on the personality of a person and I don't see Adolin as a duplication of Amaram - he has family, friends, Maya - Odium might try the same trick, but I strongly believe Adolin won't side against everyone else just because there are problems with his father.

This will perhaps change his further way, but not necessarily in the direction to Odium. This can also be something he needs for the Maya arc.

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4 hours ago, Llarimar said:

I'm just thinking this now, but maybe Odium will try a different method, and decide that the duel of champions didn't work?  If he was betting all his money on Dalinar, and Dalinar triumphed against him, then he might just try something else.  Although the duel of champions has been teased since WoK, I believe, so I do think it's unlikely (but perhaps it was only introduced as a way for Dalinar to triumph over Odium and take control of his tortured past - Odium's "champion" was only ever the shadow of Dalinar, and now that Dalinar has beaten the duel of champions, it might not come up again in the series).  

No, it will come up again. It's a distinct point in his conversation with Taravangian. 

Quote

Taravangian looked up and there, glowing in front of him, was a set of words. A message from himself, in the past. Incredible! Had he somehow seen even this?
Thank you.
He read them out loud. “You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me.”

Odium has agreed to a battle of champins, and does not have a champion. He is bound by his word. 

Edited by Calderis
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2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

So... does he get to pick a new champion then? 

That's how I read it. 

He chose Dalinar. Dalinar refused. 

He didn't think that Dalinar's refusal was an option. His agreement to the champions was purely what he thought was a guaranteed win. 

Now he has to pick someone else, and he has to make sure that they're both unable to refuse, and capable enough to stand up to what Dalinar is becoming. 

The end of OB may not have seemed like a huge win against Odium in the grand scheme of things... But from his perspective he's got to be wondering what in damnation just happened. 

Edited by Calderis
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  • 3 weeks later...
24 minutes ago, 1st of Lunch said:

Odium's Champion? No, not Adolin. 

 

 

Teravangian.

Eh. That would mean that the Diagram's goals are as straightforward as they appear. 

I can't reconcile the "inconsistencies" in the Diagram, with the startling accuracy of other areas, like the the need for words to be spoken by Taravangian because Odium visited him on a stupid day. 

Which means that even the "inaccuracies" are actually accounted for and that "Diagram Day" Taravangian is playing himself for a different goal then current day Taravangian believes.

I think that Taravangian is going to have a much bigger role in Odium's downfall, and if he ends up as the champion, it will be a set-up made for Odium to lose. I doubt he'll be the champion at all though. 

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Eh. That would mean that the Diagram's goals are as straightforward as they appear. 

I can't reconcile the "inconsistencies" in the Diagram, with the startling accuracy of other areas, like the the need for words to be spoken by Taravangian because Odium visited him on a stupid day. 

Which means that even the "inaccuracies" are actually accounted for and that "Diagram Day" Taravangian is playing himself for a different goal then current day Taravangian believes.

I think that Taravangian is going to have a much bigger role in Odium's downfall, and if he ends up as the champion, it will be a set-up made for Odium to lose. I doubt he'll be the champion at all though. 

Yeah, I am completely invested in the theory that Cultivation is behind the Diagram as part of a long con against Odium

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Yeah, I think Taravangian is on too obvious of a bad guy path to be this straight-forwardly evil. I think as things continue to go poorly and he assists Odium(saving Kharbranth), he's going to break leading to him becoming another of the Bondsmiths. 

Adolin on the other hand, he's got minimal bad deeds on his resume so far, but he has killed in cold blood and hid it(at considerable stress). Who knows how he'll handle finding out the truth about his mother and we know that Unmade influenced Dalinar to almost kill Gavilar. What if Adolin takes a shot at Renarin? Perhaps jealousy over a brother who is far surpassing him and he starts to be treated the way Renarin was all those years growing up.

I'm curious where the Ghostbloods end up in all of this. Perhaps Odium is defeated in the first 5, someone new takes up his shard, and the new shardholder is even worse/stronger.

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37 minutes ago, YKDG22 said:

Adolin on the other hand, he's got minimal bad deeds on his resume so far, but he has killed in cold blood and hid it(at considerable stress). Who knows how he'll handle finding out the truth about his mother and we know that Unmade influenced Dalinar to almost kill Gavilar. What if Adolin takes a shot at Renarin? Perhaps jealousy over a brother who is far surpassing him and he starts to be treated the way Renarin was all those years growing up.

The murder was done to protect not only Dalinar and House Kholin but all of the people that Sadeas would harm with his schemes. 

Everything that Adolin has done has been done to serve his family and absolutely no one is more protective and supportive of Renarin. 

For Adolin to to turn on Renarin, of all people, would undermine the very core of the character we've been shown. It would also go directly against the complete lack of jealousy he's been shown to have towards any of the Radiants. 

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3 hours ago, Calderis said:

Everything that Adolin has done has been done to serve his family and absolutely no one is more protective and supportive of Renarin. 

For Adolin to to turn on Renarin, of all people, would undermine the very core of the character we've been shown. It would also go directly against the complete lack of jealousy he's been shown to have towards any of the Radiants. 

This so much. Adolin is perhaps the only one (maybe together with Jasnah) who truly understands Renarin. I don't remember where exactly, but at some point in I believe OB Renarin says something, and Adolin knows him well enough to make the three steps Renarin skipped in his mind. That is care and understanding.

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i doubt that adolin will become the champion especially as he is set to become a massive celebrity in the spren world if (when) he revives his blade. the number of spren willing to bond or simply ally to dalinar is tremendous and will totally be a game changer.  i think moash  will be the next "void-herald" (imagine if kaladin had to actually fight him...)  but not the champion after all it is a bit obvious and not the counter-dalinar like he is to kaladin 

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

The murder was done to protect not only Dalinar and House Kholin but all of the people that Sadeas would harm with his schemes. 

Everything that Adolin has done has been done to serve his family and absolutely no one is more protective and supportive of Renarin. 

For Adolin to to turn on Renarin, of all people, would undermine the very core of the character we've been shown. It would also go directly against the complete lack of jealousy he's been shown to have towards any of the Radiants. 

I agree that Adolin's love for his family is the cornerstone of his character. Having him turn against his own family would neglect everything we've learned about him over these last 3 books. I feel like the only way Adolin would even entertain the notion of turning to Odium would be if it guaranteed his family's safety, much like King T's agreement with Odium to preserve Kharbranth. 

Brandon is a good writer but I struggle to see him pull off such a u-turn in a character and still make it believable. Sadeas' murder   when put into context is not convincing grounds for him turning dark side. Events in OB seem to point Moash in the direction of Odium's champion and I tend to agree. Some users here disregard this as it seems 'too obvious' but you have to remember that the average Shard member is not the average stormlight reader (see the impact of the Voidbringer reveal on casual fans vs hardcore fans).

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12 hours ago, Odin1981 said:

I feel the love triangle of Adolin, Shallan, and Kal will be somehow what pushes Adolin to that path of Odium's champion.

Adolin pulled a full gentleman move, still won, Kalladin gave up, and they got the deal sealed with marriage.

There couldn't be a resolution of the triangle that could "push" him less.

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On 6/16/2018 at 6:22 AM, Szmit said:

Adolin pulled a full gentleman move, still won, Kalladin gave up, and they got the deal sealed with marriage.

There couldn't be a resolution of the triangle that could "push" him less.

Your just as welcome to have your thoughts as I am to have mine.

I can see Kal + Adolin tension rising in the next book when Dalinar more than likely makes Adolin stand for his actions. Which at the least will more than likely be not allowing him to be king because of his actions. Then there could easily be made some resentment because he isn't a part of the knights radiant "club"  per say. Then say during some battle Kal saves Shallan from something and they have a embrace at the end that Adolin catches but doesn't see the whole reasoning behind it and there you go. Adolin then has plenty of reasoning to go down a dark path. Being forsaken by family, love, and friendship in short order would be more than enough to set him away from each of the 3. Also he would be the hardest person for Dalinar to take on given that fathers normally don't like to destroy their own sons.

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Adolin doesn't even want to king though and if he were punished in some way for Sadeas' murder, I see him being smart enough to understand why. I do agree though the love triangle isn't dead until Shallan becomes whole because Veil still likes Kaladin. He heard Maya in his head and she summoned in less than 10 heartbeats so I'm fairly certain he's a radiant.

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