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7 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I at no point decided that having a named role prevented one from having a random role. As to whether I actually distributed the roles in that way, PAFO. 

Hmmm... Well poop. The role distribution argument was the cleanest case for my innocence, so it's unfortunate to see it dashed like that. I still suspect the remaining Elims don't have vote manipulation, but that's not confirmed anymore.

In regards to my alignment, I'll just have to rely on the fact that I lynched all the known Eliminators. There's being paranoid, and then there's being overly paranoid. I didn't have to do any of that. On Day 2, I didn't have to use a Bottle of Rum, but I did anyway. That lead to Elenion dying for sure, instead of being a tie. On Day 3, I didn't have to switch my vote from Devotary to Randuir. I could have feigned being busy, and guaranteed Randuir's survival instead of the tie we got. I voted on Bort out of necessity. That one, I suppose, could have been a bus. But then, the next cycle, I voted on Randuir at the end. I could have kept rallying for his innocence, and kept my vote on Straw. However, I read through it, and made sure he wouldn't survive. Yes, that could be another bus. At the end of the day though, so many coincidences must have occured to make me an eliminator. Can't we just accept that we've been doing well this game? We've lynched three eliminators, and nearly lynched one Day 3. We've done well as a town, and I don't want to suspect those that have helped us do that. You can give into conspiracies all you want, but I'm innocent.

2 hours ago, Elandera said:

It wasn't a near-unanimous vote. At my last count, it was 3-2, with someone apparently using a bit of rum on Fifth. That is a pretty close vote when only five people actually vote.

Also, regarding the less active players, I've heard of a few at least who are posting just enough to remain technically active while not participating much in the forum itself, but staying active in things like PMs. To me that could easily be a sign of a lurking elim. It would all work much better if the others started participating a bit more, though, so we can get better reads on people.

I haven't yet reviewed Sart. I've had a crazy couple of days being called into work (I work in public safety and there have been fires popping up everywhere). I had dismissed my theory on him when he said named roles wouldn't have alternate roles, but now that's been debunked I'll look into it again. That's an IKYK situation though, because it seems like an honest village mistake to make that assumption but it could have also been an elim working to lead us in the wrong direction. I lean more toward the first option because it's something that could be and was easily clarified by the GM.

I have to leave my thoughts there for now, as I have to leave for work. Hopefully today is a bit less crazy and I have the chance to pop in a bit more often.

Would whoever did that please claim? It's late enough in the game that revealing roles wouldn't be a bad idea. Considering that Elandera is the one who brought it up, and I already used my Rum on Day 2, it seems likely that @Rathmaskal was the one who used the rum in self-preservation. That wouldn't clear him, because of the GM comment, but I think that would be a point in his favor, especially if Jondesu is an Elim.

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Yes, I used that rum.  Not necessarily in self-preservation (unless other vote manipulation was available, I was fine without using it), but to try to provide a way to prove my alignment...   (which prompted Fifth questioning Steel on the distribution)  So, yeah, that turned out to just be a waste of rum.

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8 hours ago, Mr Doctor said:

A little bit crazed with his theory, but he seems mostly genuine. From his tone and voting record he seems to be quite Village, although he's got a lot riding on his suspicions of Sart. If Sart flips Village due to a lynch headed by Fifth, it's not going to look good for Fifth. It's not inconceivable that he's the last active Elim, gone mad with boredom and is trying some audacious crackpot theory to see if it works. Honestly, it's got me hooked as well. @Fifth Scholar in your post here you talk about Rath's vote on DoS. Do you think that Rathmaskal would act so openly to save a teammate who was pretty obviously going to be lynched the next Cycle anyway?

Crazed, am I? We’ll see who’s crazed when you’re all murdered in your beds by Sart and Rath! And while I believe Sart may be Elim, he’s not the be-all and end-all of my suspicions. I’d much prefer a Rath lynch tomorrow. Also “gone mad from boredom” and “audacious crackpot theories” are correct—the part about me being an Eliminator is not. 

And yes, I do. Consider elim!Rath; he knows Devotary’s claim is likely true, because there’s no incentive for a non-Eliminator to false claim Spaniard, and the next person up for lynch is an Elim teammate. Yes, Rath might expose himself switching off Devotary and not onto Rand, but he still gets minor trust points while keeping the lynch close enough so that Rand could tie it. And he was not going to obviously be lynched next cycle—while I pushed strongly for his lynch, I was backed by basically nobody, and Bort was killed instead (also an Elim, but hey, that switch was very unexpected). 

7 hours ago, Rathmaskal said:

Obviously that was just a small part of the conclusion of Fifth's case against me, but I don't think I've seen anyone apologize that sincerely for a bad read on someone in the game...seems like it's trying to hedge a bit if I did get lynched.  I actually had half a post typed up regarding this before I realized we were down to just special roles (and I figured that special roles wouldn't have additional special abilities)  Now I'm unsure.

So that’s fair, but at that point I was genuinely unsure, and I wanted to keep my vote in place on you because I wasn’t seeing points against Jondesu. And I’m a lot more sure that you’re an elim now than I was before—the gambit with the rum seemed designed to make me believe once and for all that you were village, and I bet you were hoping I wouldn’t ask for clarification on that. For the same reason, I’m very much leaning back into my Sart suspicion, which had gone mostly into dormancy. Both seemed to pick a group (inactives/people without vote manipulation) and say: “Hey guys! I bet all the Elims left are in this group! But guess what? I’m not! So I’m cleared!” The mostly inactive Elim team thing bugs me the most, as that’s a very good way to both pocket people and make yourself look better at the same time. I’ll be supporting a Rath lynch tomorrow. I urge everyone else to join me. 

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@Fifth Scholar, your reasoning is getting harder to follow as you go along here.  My suspicion of you had only been mildly piqued by Steeldancer's declaration that special roles may have special abilities as well.  I truly used my rum because I was under the impression that that wouldn't be the case and I wanted someone I thought was a villager to focus on people who actually could be elims...

  • If we knew that there was a chance at special roles having special abilities, do you really think that both Sart and I would pin any of our case on something that could easily be confirmed or denied?  I don't have the time right now to go back and determine who the first person was to note that as a likely situation, but I know I'm not the only one who's noted the likely lack of basic elim roles at this point.
  • You still haven't really given a counter argument to the idea that active/inactives are heavily involved with the elim group.  How else do both Elenion and Bort get lynched with only three votes?  (OK, Bort was a quick turnaround at the end of the cycle, but still seems unlikely)  And we only had 5 total votes last day cycle.  The fact that I'm largely in your line of suspicion right now makes me think that I'm spot on with that assertion...or you're elim.

At this point, I'm unsure if I feel there's enough of a case on Fifth for a lynch, but I'm starting to lean more that way.

I think I'm still looking primarily at the more inactive players right now. 

Edited by Rathmaskal
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Day Eight: Life is Pain

"Val sat quietly. Val hadn't been the kind of pirate to say much, but after she got stabbed by a Guard? Well, she hadn't been one to go out and challenge them directly. Which was odd, as there should only be a few left. Where were they? Well, she would let the more experienced pirates take care of that. She just wanted to drink her coffee and ignore them. When could they go back to sea? She much preferred to go to sea.
Val frowned. Something was burning in the back of her throat. She went to stand up, but suddenly it transformed into an all-consuming pain, tearing through her body. She went to scream, but a rag went over her mouth. A voice spoke into her ear. 'It's too bad you claimed to be the old Man in Black. That poison you just drank will make you hurt. Then again, life IS pain. And anyone who says otherwise is selling something.' With that, Val passed out from the pain, and the world went black."
___

"'Man, I really thought he would be a Guard,' said Dread Private Hobbert, as he toed the dead Q. 'Well, there's still a few more to find. Let's gettem!'"
Val has been attacked! She is Mostly Dead. 
Jondesu is totally dead! He was a Pirate with Rum. 

Spoiler

1. Walin (Bill Ted)

2. Bort (Asu Wish)  Prince's Guard

3. Manukos

4. Araris Valerian (Araris) Princess/Buttercup

5. Cadmium Compounder (Indigo Montoya)  Pirate with a Parrot

6. Devotary of Spontaneity (Polydactylous Pterrodactyle)  Spaniard

7. Drake Marshall Pirate

8. Hemalurgic Headshot (Leonard Wilkins) Pirate with a Parrot

9. Snipexe (Exetes the Wandering Artist)

10. Fifth Scholar (Plaristocrates)

11. Jondesu (Q) Pirate with Rum

12. Elenion (Shree King Eelz) Prince's Guard with Parrot

13. Roadwalker (Brutus Kowd) Pirate with a Dagger

14. Doc12 (D. Senfalo) Pirate

15. Dalinar Kholin (Reginald Canuk)

16. Bugsy (Dread Pirate Cummerbund) Pirate with a Dagger

17. Kidpen (Incan C. Vable) Pirate

18. Straw (Straw)

19. Mr. Doctor (Dead Private Hobbert)

20. Val (Val) Mostly Dead

21. Randuir (Captain K.C. Grumbleton)  Prince's Guard

22. Sart (Grandpa Lace)

23. Elandera

24. Burnt Spaghetti

25. Elbereth (Elenta)

26. Rebecca (Sir Shrei King Eel)  Pirate

27. Rathmaskal (Rath)

 blu_1530054000.png

Today's fashion is selling me something! After all, life definitely isn't pain (no matter what Alvron tells me). PLEASE stay active. 

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We're down to twelve players, less than half of which have remained active. I really don't want to keep lynching actives and drive the thread into silence.

On a side note, why did we consider Straw cleared after his face-off with Randuir? It's possible they staged the fight in order to secure the other one a more village placement. What were the intitial arguments against Straw?

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I’m the giant! I figured I’d better roleclaim to clear up as much confusion as possible. Max, I’m going to die tonight, so miracle pills are appreciated.

I’m guessing you want proof. I cannot provide much, just this.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/69138-long-game-46-a-land-war-in-asia/?do=findComment&comment=710200

this is my first post, in it there’s a picture. If you look under the word artist, there’s some text. That’s about as much proof as I can provide.

I’m going to look at the way the Jondesu lynch went down, and post some analysis tomorrow.

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This makes Rathmaskal look a bit worse. He put the vote on Jondesu, albeit in self-defence, but he did it nonetheless. Not only that, but used his Rum to ensure that he remained safe, or in another light, as a way to kill a Villager. I'm unsure about whether or not I let self-defence define alignment. On one hand, it's logical that someone should defend themselves because they're sure of their alignment. On the other hand, solidifying a vote on a Villager is never a good look.

Rath's attempt to provide definitive proof of his Village-hood hasn't eventuated in anything in his favour. His response to Fifth here doesn't seem the best in terms of tone, which gives a bad gut read. Additionally, he flips a bit of suspicion back onto Fifth, which isn't a good look.

 

However, I'm not willing to lynch an active when, as Elandera says, there are so many people who haven't said anything for a while. I'll write up a list of consistently inactives:

Walin

Has stated that he's going to try and be as neutral as possible. People have had some suspicions against him, most recently being Rathmaskal, and Drake stated some suspicions before he died. @Burnt Spaghetti you had some thoughts about Drake's suspicions of Walin, have you made any progress on that?

Manukos

Has had suspicions of Jondesu, was alright with the lynch on Doc12, and would be alright with a lynch on HH and Snipexe. All but Snipexe are confirmed Villagers, and Snipexe has just claimed Giant.

Straw

Suspicions have been made against him for his behaviour. Rand did attempt to start a lynch on him. Is probably going inactive because of his own game starting up. Voted on Doc12 by piggybacking on Elandera's poke reasons, without saying why he thought that they were reasons for anything more than just a poke. Granted, Fifth did the same thing.

Snipexe

The Giant, apparently. I really didn't like his sudden tunnel on Sart with no backing after attempting to lynch Fifth an hour before, but it may just be him being a newer player. I'm willing to wait for a counterclaim and keep some suspicions up.

Burnt Spaghetti

Hasn't said much, and mentioned looking into Drake's suspicions on Walin. I think that's a good point, since Drake was a Villager and had some good arguments. Stated that she would be active in PMs, not in the thread, which is reasonable. Mostly a Village read.

Elbereth

Apparently Max, and apparently inactive. Has been saved once with a Miracle Pill, and no other Pills have been administered. I doubt that she's coming online to create a Pill and send it to someone, and not post. No reason to lynch her, but she might end up being replaced soon enough, which could make things interesting.

 

Did I miss anyone? @Walin @manukos @Elbereth, you may come up for lynch today. If death scares you, then might I offer you my patented Moracle Pill? It's at most 60% as effective as a Miracle Pill, and you can certainly guarantee that it will be looted from your cold body administered without charge! Moracle Pills, buy them today!

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 i dont have strong suspicions for anyone i was just going down the list of some of those that didnt seem vilage to me (due to voting or  overall feel) 
the reason i considered Snipexe is that iirc he voted on sart for a time  , which is normal new player behaviour , as mr doctor  pointed out 

as for coting i dont know , i usualy have one or two ppl that rub me the wrong way  but in this game  (perhaps cos i wasnt here from the start and my study of the backlog was a bt hasty ) i rly dont know , my best guess would be someone not on the village list so.... /shrug. My safest bet would be Rath but even then i am far from certain . 
i was suspicious of straw but i have faith in him that he wouldnt be innactive and only place kill orders so perhaps not him that much anymore 
and Walin was voted day one by the innexperienced dm , so i wouldn't think it is bushing 
having said that this game as a whole gives me a sense that we have been fooled , that two elims during the lynch voted on eachother so that one of them would be exhonorated for sure
(i might do a deep dive on the last 2 lynches after today perhaps ) 

Edited by manukos
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@Steeldancer, I’ll sell you a pair of re-dyed Odium gloves from LG43, and you can give me what you think is fair in exchange. I’ll take a Shard of Odium...oh wait, you didn’t have that, sorry...you were a Returned, though, right? I’ll take your Divine Breath for the gloves. That seems fair, wouldn’t want you to get an unfair price from any of those rug merchants out there. 


Oops, let Darrel take over for a moment there. Umm...so yeah, I was right when I said this: 

Quote

Current gamestate: 14 living players

2 confirmed good (Fifth Scholar, Val)

2 soft-cleared (Dalinar Kholin, Straw)

1 neutral inactive (Elbereth)

6 questionable actives (Sart, Rathmaskal, Mr Doctor, Jondesu, Snipexe, Elandera)

3 mostly-inactives (Walin, Manukos, Burnt)

The way this division splits the players means that the first five are essentially confirmed villagers. The last nine could be Elims. And I could see any of them being paired teammates. That means there are 9C2, or 36, possible pairings. Therefore, in 15 of these pairings, there is at least one Eliminator. In 1 of them, the answer to the game lies. I’m going to try to narrow our field of suspects further. Mr Doctor’s general analysis and effort, the progression of thought he’s shown, and the time he’s been willing to put in demonstrate a village mindset to me, so I will tentatively strike him from the list. Snipexe feels like a mislynch waiting to happen, as does Jondesu. If I ignore these people, as well as the semiactives, that gives me Rath, Sart and Elandera. Of these three, I feel the best about lynching Sart, though Rath is a close second. I would be happy with a lynch on either. Also—since it’s early in the day cycle, I’d like the giant to claim. It’s late enough in the game that it will make a big difference if it’s done early in the cycle, to give plenty of time for a counterclaim to arise, but we’re far enough into the late game that one claim will be worth the target it puts on the claimant’s back, simply for the information it will give us.

Edited Thursday at 09:45 PM by Fifth Scholar
 

My reads on Jondesu and Snipexe were correct, and everyone here was ready to lynch both of them yesterday and call it fine. Then some others were saying to me in PM that Snip/Walin could be an elim pairing. Walin could be an elim, but now that I know we have an active Elim around I want to find them. And I think my suspect list of [Rath, Sart, Elandera] still holds, and that for the numerous reasons I’ve stated before, Rathmaskal is an Eliminator. (Also my Sart theory is looking interesting in light of new evidence, but I’ll drop it for now because I feel there are better targets.) (Also I’m taking Dalinar and Straw out of “soft-cleared” and into “village-reading.” It’s time to consider all possibilities.) (Also I’m not letting all the logical people shut me up in a mental ward when I’m finally trying to lead my so-called conspiracy theory lynches.)

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1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

My reads on Jondesu and Snipexe were correct, and everyone here was ready to lynch both of them yesterday and call it fine. Then some others were saying to me in PM that Snip/Walin could be an elim pairing. Walin could be an elim, but now that I know we have an active Elim around I want to find them. And I think my suspect list of [Rath, Sart, Elandera] still holds, and that for the numerous reasons I’ve stated before, Rathmaskal is an Eliminator. (Also my Sart theory is looking interesting in light of new evidence, but I’ll drop it for now because I feel there are better targets.) (Also I’m taking Dalinar and Straw out of “soft-cleared” and into “village-reading.” It’s time to consider all possibilities.) 

What do you think of the idea of lynching inactives? I'm sort of leaning that way, but I'd want everyone to be in agreement about it.

1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

(Also I’m not letting all the logical people shut me up in a mental ward when I’m finally trying to lead my so-called conspiracy theory lynches.)

Oh, never mind :lol:.

I'm pretty confident that Fifth is Village. Insane, yes. A public menace, of course. Pissing on the floors and screaming about Guards in the tapestries...well, you can see for yourself. But for whatever reason, his madness seems benevolent, whereas earlier in the game it would have earned suspicion and even a vote. The fact that he's tunneling hard against Rath and Sart doesn't necessarily seem AI, it seems like he's wanting to have some fun with the game. It seems like a move that's far too risky for an Elim unless, as I stated a bit earlier, he's the last active Elim trying to squeeze some fun out of a quiet game. Of course, my read could change depending on how Rath and Sart flip.

I'm not convinced just yet. I'm going to take a look at Rathmaskal for myself and see how much I agree with Fifth's theories. I haven't really been all too impressed with his behaviour this game, but not enough to lynch him. Until now, when the lack of information and clear targets means that I may have to lower my threshold for what is offending and what isn't.

Something that a Rathmaskal lynch would do for us would tell us whether Fifth is evil insane or (mostly) harmless floor-pissing insane. A Village Rath would probably mean a Village Sart and an Elim Fifth, whereas an Elim Rath would do the opposite. I'm almost willing to take that gamble for the information benefit alone, but at this stage in the game, where the Elims are closer to their win-con and such an attempt could lose us 2 out of 5-6 active players... Yeah, I'm not taking that. Not to mention that whomever gets vindicated the most would probably end up being a target for the Elims that Night, so that's 3 out of 5-6.

Because of that, I'm not willing to vote for Rath based solely on Fifth's theory and the idea of vindicating someone. We really don't need a higher inactive proportion, and the cost of losing two potential Villagers is too high. Sorry, Fifth, but I'm going to have to do my own research on this one.


But while I'm here, would anyone want to buy some carpet cleaner? I've caught wind (quite literally, the wind brought the smell to me) of someone who has gone rather mad and urinated upon the carpet. This carpet cleaner is guaranteed to get anything out of carpet. Including the carpet itself! You heard it right, future customer: this carpet cleaner is so effective that it cleans the carpet completely away!

Other carpet cleaners only get a proportion of the grime, but our cleaner gets all of it by ensuring that there is no carpet for the grime to stick to! There's no reason to wait! You have the perfect excuse to go and buy more carpet from our convenient sister company that sells the most soluble carpets at inconceivable prices.

Did you find a label on your carpet cleaner bottle that says "Hydrochloric Acid"? Fear not! It's a simple packaging error in our factory. Bring the bottle back and we'll give you a free NDA. That's right, a free contract that requires you to never speak of anything to do with our products or company ever again! Do you have a choice in signing it? You bet that you don't.

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47 minutes ago, Mr Doctor said:

A Village Rath would probably mean a Village Sart and an Elim Fifth, whereas an Elim Rath would do the opposite.

Why would you give Sart a free pass when I show up as village?  Just because that's my read?  And the same for Fifth and elim?  Just because Fifth is tunneling hard, doesn't mean elim. (which is why I'm not starting a lynch vote on Fifth at this point...although I'm getting closer to thinking that's the right move)  That's the same logic (that I used as well) that resulted in the doc12 lynch...

10 hours ago, Mr Doctor said:

This makes Rathmaskal look a bit worse. He put the vote on Jondesu, albeit in self-defence, but he did it nonetheless. Not only that, but used his Rum to ensure that he remained safe, or in another light, as a way to kill a Villager. I'm unsure about whether or not I let self-defence define alignment. On one hand, it's logical that someone should defend themselves because they're sure of their alignment. On the other hand, solidifying a vote on a Villager is never a good look.

Rath's attempt to provide definitive proof of his Village-hood hasn't eventuated in anything in his favour. His response to Fifth here doesn't seem the best in terms of tone, which gives a bad gut read. Additionally, he flips a bit of suspicion back onto Fifth, which isn't a good look.

Why would me putting a vote on Jondesu in self defense be anything but NAI? (yes, I know how to use this term now)  It's not like I started the vote, I didn't know for sure the Jondesu was a villager, and Jondesu made no claim at a special role.  And I know that I'm a villager.  So making sure I don't get lynched with a fairly late-in-the-day vote (to see if anyone else was planning on voting on someone more likely to be elim) was my only move. 

Also, with regards to flipping suspicion back onto Fifth, I had Fifth as an elim read until I made the (now determined to be incorrect) assumption that special elim roles couldn't have special abilities.  This is merely returning to my previous mindset.  ALSO, put yourself in my shoes.  If someone comes at you with rather shaky logic accusing you of being elim, wouldn't you start looking for reasons why they were doing that?  I've addressed every question about my activity, provided logical responses.  Some of the reasons Fifth is suspicious of me is due to me not knowing how some of the terminology or rules of this specific version of the game.  (but they keep getting brought up)  The ONLY legitimate reason I could see anyone being suspicious of me is due to D3...for which I'm being given the full blame for DoS getting lynched.  (Looking back on this...why would Fifth say Straw is cleared?  Aside from relative inactivity, Straw's voting pattern has been abstain, try to save randuir, and vote on runaway lynches)

I'm going to park a vote back on Walin.  I still don't see any situation where the "I'm going to post and make analysis but never vote" strategy could help the village.

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I admit defeat. I am terrible at actually finding the eliminators. However, I don't feel that either Rath or Walin are good options. I agree Walin's style is unhelpful, but I don't think it's eliminator behavior. Rath has too often voted on eliminators and helped break ties on them for me to want to lynch them.

For now, I'm going to place a vote on Burnt Spaghetti. I don't have any real suspicions, but would like to draw her out to comment on the current situation. @Burnt Spaghetti

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1 hour ago, Elandera said:

Rath has too often voted on eliminators

That’s hysterical. *dies of laughter in corner*

18 hours ago, Elandera said:

I really don't want to keep lynching actives and drive the thread into silence.

I understand this sentiment; however, inactives will be (theoretically) filter-killed at some point, and lynching them gives no solid information due to their nature of not participating. In addition, and everyone keeps missing this, we have an active Eliminator left. It’s probably within [Rath, Sart, Elandera]. I’m suspicious of them, in roughly that order (even if I’m reading Sart as more village as I look at him more closely). 

8 hours ago, Mr Doctor said:

What do you think of the idea of lynching inactives? I'm sort of leaning that way, but I'd want everyone to be in agreement about it.

You should know that I strongly oppose this while we have at least one active Eliminator remaining. 

8 hours ago, Mr Doctor said:

The fact that he's tunneling hard against Rath and Sart doesn't necessarily seem AI, it seems like he's wanting to have some fun with the game.

This is true. The wild accusations are a lot of fun. :D As a side note, the rest of your post is blatant defamation. 

8 hours ago, Mr Doctor said:

A Village Rath would probably mean a Village Sart and an Elim Fifth, whereas an Elim Rath would do the opposite. I'm almost willing to take that gamble for the information benefit alone, but at this stage in the game, where the Elims are closer to their win-con and such an attempt could lose us 2 out of 5-6 active players... Yeah, I'm not taking that. Not to mention that whomever gets vindicated the most would probably end up being a target for the Elims that Night, so that's 3 out of 5-6.

If there’s an Elim among the actives, best to find them now. Later, the Elims could have very well killed all the highly trusted, active villagers, and the active Elim will be able to more or less direct the lynch. I’m not even convinced that a semiactive elim exists at this point, though my guess for one would be manukos or Burnt. 

Please, @Rathmaskal and @Elandera, consider your options. Would you rather find an active Eliminator now, when we have cleared people and active discussers contributing thoughts, or later, when nobody but the semiactives are left? 

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1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

That’s hysterical. *dies of laughter in corner*

I understand this sentiment; however, inactives will be (theoretically) filter-killed at some point, and lynching them gives no solid information due to their nature of not participating. In addition, and everyone keeps missing this, we have an active Eliminator left. It’s probably within [Rath, Sart, Elandera]. I’m suspicious of them, in roughly that order (even if I’m reading Sart as more village as I look at him more closely). 

You should know that I strongly oppose this while we have at least one active Eliminator remaining. 

This is true. The wild accusations are a lot of fun. :D As a side note, the rest of your post is blatant defamation. 

If there’s an Elim among the actives, best to find them now. Later, the Elims could have very well killed all the highly trusted, active villagers, and the active Elim will be able to more or less direct the lynch. I’m not even convinced that a semiactive elim exists at this point, though my guess for one would be manukos or Burnt. 

Please, @Rathmaskal and @Elandera, consider your options. Would you rather find an active Eliminator now, when we have cleared people and active discussers contributing thoughts, or later, when nobody but the semiactives are left? 

Yes, I know there's such a thing as bussing. But tell me this, why would Rath bus Rand, breaking a tie by placing a vote on him, when there was a second option under just as much suspicion? The only thing I can think is that if Rath is elim, so is Straw. 

Edited by Elandera
Fixing names
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22 hours ago, Elandera said:

We're down to twelve players, less than half of which have remained active. I really don't want to keep lynching actives and drive the thread into silence.

On a side note, why did we consider Straw cleared after his face-off with Randuir? It's possible they staged the fight in order to secure the other one a more village placement. What were the intitial arguments against Straw?

On Day 1, Elenion made a weird post defending Straw. It was either a pocket attempt, or a teammate trying to remove suspicion. Other than that, Straw really hasn't done much this game.

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10 hours ago, Rathmaskal said:

Why would you give Sart a free pass when I show up as village?  Just because that's my read?  And the same for Fifth and elim?  Just because Fifth is tunneling hard, doesn't mean elim. (which is why I'm not starting a lynch vote on Fifth at this point...although I'm getting closer to thinking that's the right move)  That's the same logic (that I used as well) that resulted in the doc12 lynch...

My thinking was that if Fifth is an Elim and going after both of you with intention to lynch, then it's unlikely that both of you are Elims. That's the primary reason, but your reads of Sart also contribute to it. It's not quite that clear-cut, but it would be a point in Sart's favour if you were Village, and vice versa.

10 hours ago, Rathmaskal said:

Why would me putting a vote on Jondesu in self defense be anything but NAI? (yes, I know how to use this term now)  It's not like I started the vote, I didn't know for sure the Jondesu was a villager, and Jondesu made no claim at a special role.  And I know that I'm a villager.  So making sure I don't get lynched with a fairly late-in-the-day vote (to see if anyone else was planning on voting on someone more likely to be elim) was my only move. 

Also, with regards to flipping suspicion back onto Fifth, I had Fifth as an elim read until I made the (now determined to be incorrect) assumption that special elim roles couldn't have special abilities.  This is merely returning to my previous mindset.  ALSO, put yourself in my shoes.  If someone comes at you with rather shaky logic accusing you of being elim, wouldn't you start looking for reasons why they were doing that?  I've addressed every question about my activity, provided logical responses.  Some of the reasons Fifth is suspicious of me is due to me not knowing how some of the terminology or rules of this specific version of the game.  (but they keep getting brought up)  The ONLY legitimate reason I could see anyone being suspicious of me is due to D3...for which I'm being given the full blame for DoS getting lynched.  (Looking back on this...why would Fifth say Straw is cleared?  Aside from relative inactivity, Straw's voting pattern has been abstain, try to save randuir, and vote on runaway lynches)

This is reasonable. The issues that I take with people killing Villagers in self-defence is based solely in the fact that the results of their actions, regardless of intent, is a dead Villager. Even if it's not reasonable to suspect someone because of that, there's a piece of me that trusts the person less because of what they caused. Your defences are also admirable, as I dislike it when people dodge and avoid suspicions against them (Rand for example, and Sart to an extent ). I'm bringing my read a few ticks closer to Village because of this.

3 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

If there’s an Elim among the actives, best to find them now. Later, the Elims could have very well killed all the highly trusted, active villagers, and the active Elim will be able to more or less direct the lynch. I’m not even convinced that a semiactive elim exists at this point, though my guess for one would be manukos or Burnt. 

This is a good point, as Elims would benefit most from killing off the inactives with lynches, as it brings them closer to their win-con without much hassle. It's the most efficient way to remove players, because Night kills can be used against more active people where the lynch would be more likely to fail. However, the alternative argument is that by lynching our active players, we risk doing the Elims' work for them, because we may get down to too few active Villagers to reliably lynch the active Elims.

I'm not sure if more active players favours the Village or the Elims. On one hand, a smaller pool of players when kills are still going off means we have less suspects to consider. On the other, it also means that there's a countdown where each Night loses us another active player, which makes it harder to lynch the Elims when they become more obvious. 

2 hours ago, Elandera said:

Yes, I know there's such a thing as bussing. But tell me this, why would Rath bus Rand, breaking a tie by placing a vote on him, when there was a second option under just as much suspicion? The only thing I can think is that if Rath is elim, so is Straw. 

That's not inconceivable. Rand was more suspected than Straw, so it might have been a move to allow the least-suspected Elim to survive. The only counter to that I see is that Straw hasn't really been active enough to justify Rand's death to save him. That might just be unfortunate timing, however.

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I should note, my point at killing off inactives isn't because I don't want the inactives in the game...it's because I think that there is a high chance that we have at least one elim hiding in the in inactive ranks.  The fact that we haven't had anyone killed due to inactivity in a while means that everyone remaining is active to some degree at least...putting in 'the elims decide to kill this person' messages to Steeldancer would be sufficient to keep the activity up... Or talking in the elim doc for that matter.

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21 minutes ago, Rathmaskal said:

I should note, my point at killing off inactives isn't because I don't want the inactives in the game...it's because I think that there is a high chance that we have at least one elim hiding in the in inactive ranks.  The fact that we haven't had anyone killed due to inactivity in a while means that everyone remaining is active to some degree at least...putting in 'the elims decide to kill this person' messages to Steeldancer would be sufficient to keep the activity up... Or talking in the elim doc for that matter.

Do you have any specific suggestions? Clock's ticking, and even though it's not pleasant to kill someone off when you don't have any major suspicions, it may still need to be done. I'm striking Elbereth and Snipexe from the list because Elbereth is all but confirmed to be Max, and no one's countered Snipexe's Giant claim. That leaves us with Walin, Manukos, Burnt Spaghetti, and Straw. I'm leaning more towards Straw or Manukos, although I don't have much on either of them.

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On 6/25/2018 at 0:30 PM, Mr Doctor said:

<snip>

However, I'm not willing to lynch an active when, as Elandera says, there are so many people who haven't said anything for a while. I'll write up a list of consistently inactives:

Walin

Has stated that he's going to try and be as neutral as possible. People have had some suspicions against him, most recently being Rathmaskal, and Drake stated some suspicions before he died. @Burnt Spaghetti you had some thoughts about Drake's suspicions of Walin, have you made any progress on that?

<snippy>

Burnt Spaghetti

Hasn't said much, and mentioned looking into Drake's suspicions on Walin. I think that's a good point, since Drake was a Villager and had some good arguments. Stated that she would be active in PMs, not in the thread, which is reasonable. Mostly a Village read.

<snipoodle>

Nope no progress made sorry, didn't really look into it, hoped someone else would because i'm lazy

Good lad. Fair statement. And i've followed through with being more active in pms too! yay!

 

Hm, RE: Elandera asking me to comment. Well. Honestly? not following as much as i should.  Though i do have gut feelings.

The people yet to drop dead by either natural or unnatural causes categorized into how my belly be looking at them:

Hrmmmm:
Sart - i mean, imo? he's probably fine, but, my rng told me to watch out for him. thats literally it. otherwise idk
Fifth - i dont know why
Snip - your glee about the sart thing concerned me, but i dont know if that was alignment indicative, just struck me as unusal, however the fashion was being dramatic at the time i believe
Walin -  Cause the drake thing, dont actually know
Elandera - idk, pms made my eyebrows move down in wariness

Eh seem fine:
Manukos
Elbereth
Mr Doctor
Me, obviously
Rath
Straw
Dalinar
 

 

Now the Hrmms are in no particular order.  
anyways, thats uh

all i got >>
i useful! totally! eheh......... sorry

Edited by Burnt Spaghetti
>>> hit enter when not done!
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Thanks Burnt for your thoughts. I know some of what I said in PM was unusual, but I hope my last response helped that a bit. However, I understand not trusting anyone in PMs.

Here's where I am:

Walin (Bill Ted) - Don't agree with playstyle, but don't think they're elim.
Manukos - Too few posts to get a good read, which at this point leaves me suspicious.
Snipexe (Exetes the Wandering Artist) - Mostly village considering the giant claim hasn't been contradicted.
Fifth Scholar (Plaristocrates) - Despite his madness, I'd definitely have to say village. His crazed nature about Rath and Sart seem too much to be elim.
Dalinar Kholin (Reginald Canuk) - Village leaning, though with recent drop in activity .
Straw (Straw) - On my suspicion list, but also going into inactivity. I may just let time run its course.
Mr. Doctor (Dead Private Hobbert) - Feels honest village, though I'm starting to second guess myself and wonder if he's an elim who's really good at hiding.
Sart (Grandpa Lace) - Though I've been going back and forth on this one a bit, I'm keeping them at a solid neutral. Some of the D2 lynch votes still make me wary, but the belief eliminators couldn't have rum/dagger roles seemed an honest village mistake.
Elandera - Village, because I know my role. However, I haven't been playing smart and can understand others wary opinions of me.
Burnt Spaghetti - Another neutral, though leaning toward village at the moment.
Elbereth (Elenta) - Neutral (Max)
Rathmaskal (Rath) - Slight village. Breaking that tie on the Rand/Straw debate holds a lot of weight for me in this.

If you can't tell, I'm running into a bit of a problem. I'm reading pretty much everyone as village! These last two lynches have taught me I can't trust myself. So I will concede to Fifth. I really hope you're right. Rathmaskal. If they do flip elim, then we have a good amount to learn. If they flip village, we'll learn Fifth has gone completely mad.

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