The Chosen Ones - Again

[StrikerEZ]

So, if you've been around long enough, you probably remember the first topic on this I made a looooong time ago. Some things are relatively the same when it comes to the overall history, but lots of little specific things have changed. I'll go into those eventually, but I just need to go over some stuff right now to get some help with the magic system.

There are 17 elements:

• Air: This element is pretty self explanatory. Elemancers (a temporary term for someone who controls one of the elements) that control Air can manipulate wind currents, create vacuums (either by absorbing the air in an area or by pulling air away from it), and fly by manipulating the air above them to go faster while propelling themselves forward with wind from behind. Theoretically, they can create air if they need to, but in most cases it is far easier to simply manipulate air that already exists.
• Crystal: Crystal is a bit more weird. Basically, they can control gemstones and other minerals, shaping and moving them however they want. This element is less powerful on Elmeera, the planet this story takes place on, but can be really powerful on some others. They can also create and absorb crystals.
• Fauna: Elemancers that can control Fauna can manipulate the minds of animals, cause them to grow faster than they normally would (which can be used to heal them), cause mutations in the creature's DNA, and many other things.
• Fire: This one is pretty straight forward. They can manipulate fire that already exists, or they can create fire and manipulate that instead. They can also absorb fire.
• Flora: This element works very similarly to Fauna, except with plants instead.
• Heat: Elemancers that control Heat can raise the temperature around them or in specific areas within their magical radius by using some of their energy. Conversely, they can absorb lower the temperature by absorbing some of the heat.
• Ice: Elemancers that control Ice can create ice and move it around, manipulate ice that already exists, absorb ice that already exists, or freeze water into ice.
• Light: Elemancers that control Light can create or absorb light and manipulate light that already exists.
• Lightning: Elemancers that control Lightning can create or absorb lightning/electricity, as well as manipulate lightning/electricity that already exists.
• Metal: Elemancers that control Metal can create or absorb metal, manipulate metal that already exists, or reshape metal into different forms or different metals.
• Sand: Elemancers that control Sand can create or absorb sand and manipulate sand that already exists (riding sand dunes for the win).
• Shadow: This element works in reverse of Light. Light elemancers can make it dark by absorbing light, which doesn't cost energy, while Shadow Elemancers have to spend energy to make it dark.
• Sound: Elemancers that control Sound can control or absorb the vibrations in the air that make sound and manipulate those vibrations as well.
• Spirit: This element gets into the weird stuff of my universe, so not gonna explain (for now).
• Stone: Elemancers that control Stone can control rocks and stones and create/absorb rocks and stones.
• Vapor: Elemancers that control Vapor can control/absorb/create gaseous water. They can also evaporate water into vapor.
• Water: Elemancers that control Water can control/absorb/create liquid water. They can also melt ice into water and condense vapor into water.

(List is now complete)

At the time the story takes place, the way the people of Elmeera understand the magics has been influenced by the rise of the Seven Kingdoms, which were Fire (Fire and Heat), Water (Water, Ice, and Vapor), Air (Air and Sound), Earth (Stone, Sand, Crystal, and Metal), Light, Shadow, and Life (Flora and Fauna), and the rise of the cultures that were associated with those kingdoms. (Spirit is left out on purpose)

As for Lightning, I haven't decided whether I should put it into the big group of Fire or Air. I could make it fit in either one, I just need help deciding which group to put it in.

Edited May 9, 2018 by StrikerEZ

[Yezrien]

Well, lightning produces heat, light, and sound, and sometimes fire. And it's usually generated in a context with a lot of vapour (which is actually water). So you can probably put it in air, fire, water, or light. 

Maybe you explained this in an older thread, but why are there seventeen? That seems like a lot.

[StrikerEZ]

47 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

Well, lightning produces heat, light, and sound, and sometimes fire. And it's usually generated in a context with a lot of vapour (which is actually water). So you can probably put it in air, fire, water, or light. 

Maybe you explained this in an older thread, but why are there seventeen? That seems like a lot.

That's just because it's like the number of the universe this story takes place in, kinda like 16 in the Cosmere.

Hmm....the magic is also based on perception, so even though lightning does all those things, the people usually associate certain elements together. I could see it going with fire or air most strongly. I just can't decide which one.

[StrikerEZ]

@Belzedar @The One Who Connects @Steeldancer I updated the main post, if you want to look at it.

[EddyJ]

Lightning seems closer to fire to me. Maybe that’s because of Avatar: The Last Airbender, though. 

[The One Who Connects]

On 5/7/2018 at 1:59 PM, StrikerEZ said:

Crystal: Cyrstal

Spellcheck. (I'm pedant sometimes)

• Can you elaborate on how one "absorbs" crystal, metal and stone? Absorbing Air/Heat/most of them make sense, heck, even sand felt viable, but...
• Growth and Mutation transfer seamlessly, but how far does Fauna's "manipulate the minds" thing translate to Flora?
• Oh.. you separated Fire and Heat. Has it always been like that, or is this new?
• Any limit to how cold a Heat Elemancer could make an area by absorbing heat? It'd be very entertaining to have a Heat figure walk on water b/c they froze it.
  • On that subject, what does absorbing heat do to them? I'm working off of only one example of such, and they had to release it b/c they couldn't contain that much. (Granted, heat was just a subset of Fire in that Universe, so that might have had something to do with it)
• Can Ice only freeze water into ice, or would water vapor in the air work? Not sure how exactly dehumidifying an area would help out, but it's an odd mental image I came up with, and I'm curious now.
• (I think I brought this up the first time too) Will absorbing Shadow create light?
• Since there isn't really a distinction between sand and "very tiny stones" (for most intents and purposes), can a Sand Elemancer break down a rock into very tiny stones so that it's then sand, and can a Stone Elemancer do the reverse?
• As for Lightning, I'm not sure if I'd put it in either of them. Electricity just doesn't... mesh in my head.

[StrikerEZ]

21 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Spellcheck. (I'm pedant sometimes)

• Can you elaborate on how one "absorbs" crystal, metal and stone? Absorbing Air/Heat/most of them make sense, heck, even sand felt viable, but...
• Growth and Mutation transfer seamlessly, but how far does Fauna's "manipulate the minds" thing translate to Flora?
• Oh.. you separated Fire and Heat. Has it always been like that, or is this new?
• Any limit to how cold a Heat Elemancer could make an area by absorbing heat? It'd be very entertaining to have a Heat figure walk on water b/c they froze it.
  • On that subject, what does absorbing heat do to them? I'm working off of only one example of such, and they had to release it b/c they couldn't contain that much. (Granted, heat was just a subset of Fire in that Universe, so that might have had something to do with it)
• Can Ice only freeze water into ice, or would water vapor in the air work? Not sure how exactly dehumidifying an area would help out, but it's an odd mental image I came up with, and I'm curious now.
• (I think I brought this up the first time too) Will absorbing Shadow create light?
• Since there isn't really a distinction between sand and "very tiny stones" (for most intents and purposes), can a Sand Elemancer break down a rock into very tiny stones so that it's then sand, and can a Stone Elemancer do the reverse?
• As for Lightning, I'm not sure if I'd put it in either of them. Electricity just doesn't... mesh in my head.

Fixed the error

• Basically, it's a bit like how in the Cosmere everything is made of Investiture. The whole conservation of mass, energy, and investiture thing. It's like that. They are literally turning their element into energy that they can then use later. There is a limit to how much energy they can absorb, but it is greater than their natural ability to generate energy that they can use. If that's confusing, then I'm doing my job well. I'll still answer any more questions you have.
• It doesn't really translate that well. Probably should've mentioned that.
• That's new. If you remember the old elements, I replaced Mind, Order, and Chaos with Heat, Spirit, and Fauna.
• There's no real limit to how cold they cold make it, except for the limit on how much energy they can absorb (which is unique for each individual). Absorbing heat has no real effect on them besides the fact that they have a greater energy reserve for later.
• Hmm...I don't think Ice could sublimate, but I hadn't thought of that. That's a maybe. There's nothing really stopping it from happening besides people realizing it could work.
• I worked this out with a real life friend of mine, and the answer is yes. It gets really fun because it basically creates infinite energy, especially if a Shadow Elemancer goes into a dark room with a Light Elemancer and they both start absorbing.
• Yeah, that would work. It kinda depends on the person's definition of those two elements though. It's easier for a Sand guy to break down rocks into sand and control it then it is for a Stone guy to turn sand back into rocks they can use.
• Yeah, but I need to put it somewhere though.

[SilverTiger]

Lightning would work better with Air, due to its association with storms and sound (thunder).

[StrikerEZ]

Oh @Calderis What do you think of this?

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Oh @Calderis What do you think of this?

Call me a Steven Brust fan, but I'm sold on 17 significance. 

My only real question is, is there a reason for the segregation between water/ice/vapor and stone/sand? 

[StrikerEZ]

19 hours ago, Calderis said:

Call me a Steven Brust fan, but I'm sold on 17 significance. 

My only real question is, is there a reason for the segregation between water/ice/vapor and stone/sand? 

I don't understand that reference, but okay.

That's basically because I wanted there to be more elements, and I figured separate control over the different phases of water would be an interesting way to work with things. As for stone/sand, that's because I imagine the two things as being different, even though they're basically the same thing just in big chunks or tons of tiny little pieces.

In world, it's because they view those things as separate elements, so they control them separately. If you really get into semantics, technically everything is just made of matter, so shouldn't they all be able to control every element? (There's also a bit of an intentional limitation put on the elements by a sapient being, but that's complicated)

[Calderis]

@StrikerEZ I meant it more as it a strictly perception all limitation, or is there an actual in world reason that they are segregated. It sounds like there is. 

[StrikerEZ]

Just now, Calderis said:

@StrikerEZ I meant it more as it a strictly perception all limitation, or is there an actual in world reason that they are segregated. It sounds like there is. 

You see, the answer is yes-it's a bit of a perception limit and also an imposed limit. It's not a huge deal (except I guess for the fact that there is a being that has the ability to put that limit on the magic). I don't want to get too much into that in here, so if you want to ask more, just PM me.

 

[Yezrien]

Actually I was wondering the same thing. Not only are sand and rock basically the same, but they both contain metals and crystals. And shadow runs into a problem because it doesn't really exist; it's just the absence of light. All of these are categories that exist mainly in human perception, so if you're going for hard, logical magic, you should probably explain that the system is generated or influenced by cognitive forces.

[StrikerEZ]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:16 PM, Belzedar said:

Actually I was wondering the same thing. Not only are sand and rock basically the same, but they both contain metals and crystals. And shadow runs into a problem because it doesn't really exist; it's just the absence of light. All of these are categories that exist mainly in human perception, so if you're going for hard, logical magic, you should probably explain that the system is generated or influenced by cognitive forces.

Yeah, I've said before that it is definitely influenced by a sapient entity, along with the perception of the people using/witnessing the magic, and that greatly influences it.

[StrikerEZ]

@Belzedar @Calderis @The One Who Connects

I've come up with a couple different names for the Fire race, but I can't decide which one works best.

• Takkal
• Tekall
• Takkel
• Takkol

[The One Who Connects]

56 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I've come up with a couple different names for the Fire race, but I can't decide which one works best.

• Takkal
• Tekall
• Takkel
• Takkol

I'd go for a "Ta" name. I'm not sure after that, since there is minimal difference between the three. Hrmm... A or O probably. In my head, takkel sounds a lot like tackle.... actually, is there a dialect for pronouncing these, or will they work like plain english?

[StrikerEZ]

20 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I'd go for a "Ta" name. I'm not sure after that, since there is minimal difference between the three. Hrmm... A or O probably. In my head, takkel sounds a lot like tackle.... actually, is there a dialect for pronouncing these, or will they work like plain english?

Okay, here's how I pronounce each of them:

• Takkal: "tuh-CALL"
• Tekall: "teh-CALL"
• Takkel: "tah-KELL"
• Takkol: "tah-KOHL"

Some other names from the language group are Jarrak, Zari, Kyren, Darian, and Vuur.

Edited June 5, 2018 by StrikerEZ

[Hempknight]

I think scientifically lightning needs ice to form. I'm sure it's something to do with frozen rain particles rubbing together and making an electric charge. I know this wouldn't fit very well with your perception method as people would associate either fire or air well before Ice but scientifically I think Ice would be closer. But on another note I like the sound of everything you have come up with so far 

[The One Who Connects]

2 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Okay, here's how I pronounce each of them:

• Takkal: "tuh-CALL"
• Tekall: "teh-CALL"
• Takkel: "tah-KELL"
• Takkol: "tah-KOHL"

Interesting. Still a fan of the "tah" sound, since that's one thing I'll always associate with Fire. No preference between Options 3 and 4, but it'd be good for other people to provide opinions too.

23 minutes ago, Hempknight said:

I think scientifically lightning needs ice to form. I'm sure it's something to do with frozen rain particles rubbing together and making an electric charge.

Guess I've fulfilled my "learn something new every day" quota. That's actually really interesting(and kinda strange to think about, given how hot Texas summers get even with the rainstorms).

[StrikerEZ]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Interesting. Still a fan of the "tah" sound, since that's one thing I'll always associate with Fire. No preference between Options 3 and 4, but it'd be good for other people to provide opinions too.

Guess I've fulfilled my "learn something new every day" quota. That's actually really interesting(and kinda strange to think about, given how hot Texas summers get even with the rainstorms).

Do you associate that sound with fire because of bionicle, perhaps? 

I've asked some people on the discord, and Takell/Takkel seems the most popular. 

1 hour ago, Hempknight said:

I think scientifically lightning needs ice to form. I'm sure it's something to do with frozen rain particles rubbing together and making an electric charge. I know this wouldn't fit very well with your perception method as people would associate either fire or air well before Ice but scientifically I think Ice would be closer. But on another note I like the sound of everything you have come up with so far 

That's interesting. I'll have to do some research on that.

[The One Who Connects]

2 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Do you associate that sound with fire because of bionicle, perhaps? 

Indeed. Been like that since 4th grade when I saw the first few books in my school library.

[Hempknight]

I think that warm air pushes the frozen particles upward were they bang together causing a charge. So if warm air pushes the ice up really it's included heat, air and Ice  so it's all 3 really haha. A bit more head scratching for you there bud. Also with your air and fire elements not being linked how does that work with fire not being able to burn without oxygen and oxygen essentially being air?

[StrikerEZ]

9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Indeed. Been like that since 4th grade when I saw the first few books in my school library.

Some of the names for some of the other Chosen Ones are inspired by the naming system of Bionicle. Bionicle was storming amazing. 

9 hours ago, Hempknight said:

I think that warm air pushes the frozen particles upward were they bang together causing a charge. So if warm air pushes the ice up really it's included heat, air and Ice  so it's all 3 really haha. A bit more head scratching for you there bud. Also with your air and fire elements not being linked how does that work with fire not being able to burn without oxygen and oxygen essentially being air?

Well...putting it off to perception won't work, will it? 

It's because...Fire basically works by giving the spark/energy required to start a fire or, in some cases, providing the fuel. Air works by simply manipulating the actual air and the wind currents. So, while fire needs oxygen to burn, Fire elementalists don't have control over it-which gives Air elementalists an advantage over them. Did any of that make sense?

[Hempknight]

Yeah that makes sense. Can you maybe have sub magics that are even more powerful that require certain systems to work in harmony? Like the air, fire and ice elementalists working together to create the lightning maybe?