Fox - Chapter 9 - kais 05/07/18, 2734 words

[kais]

Same ole same ole. Pacing, age, are they working. This is a completely reworked chapter, mostly plot, and I’m hoping it comes off with the appropriate amount of ‘deconstructing S’s worldview’ and not just ‘plot-y info dump’. I moved this chat with the innkeeper scene to before the bedroom scene, so the tension from M and S’s talk feed directly into the tension with Sam. Hopefully it helps.
 

Please abbreviate all proper nouns. Also sorry for not responding to comments these past few weeks! I'm hoping to play catch up this week, if things calm down.

[Mandamon]

I liked the reworking on this chapter. It brought up a lot of the questions I had while reading, and gave some answers while also letting S develop. Still not completely sure S would have missed the demise of the guilds--the process seemed a lot more sudden in the capital, and no one mentioned it had been going on a long time. It makes less sense now why the guildmasters are being captured, if this has been going on so long. Interested to see what happens!

pg 1: "continued to drop exponentially "
--I am still thrown by this phrase. It's nice dramatically, but practially, it only works for a short time before things hit absolute zero.

pg 2: "Rooftops glowed yellow. Footpaths, what parts could be seen under the snow, shone a strange silver."
--I like this...sets up the witchcraft nicely.

pg 3: "No doctor will attend someone during tii."
--this still seems very hazardous. But, tradition, I suppose...

pg 3: "before I could figure out what to say"
--Why does S need to say anything? Just because the man is a guild member?

pg 4: "brushed crumbs off the nearest slab of metal"
I looked back, but I don't think you mention metal tables. Yes, wood is scarse, but I'd think processed metal tables would still be more expensive than importing wood tables

pg 4: "Was it hypocritical to desire the very attributes I sought to hide?"
--good character moment.

pg 5: "a dense walnut without a single glue joint that I could see"
--ah, so the chairs are wood, then.

pg 6: "“I’m S the alchemist"
--This popped me out of the story--too long between the last dialogue, and S ate an egg in between, somehow.

pg 6: "They keep wandering in off the glacier with some type of snow madness."
--ok, not sure why random people are staying in the inn. Are they paying by trading work?
--huh...guilders. Ok, interested.

pg 8: "Why constrain yourself with rules and old methods that can’t compete with machines?"
--I like K.

pg 9: "noting how many of them are wandering back across the glacier"
--I like the guild discussion vs. industrialization. Still not sure what the glacier has to do with it.

pg 9: "We’ve not had a guild master of any specialty for at least five years,"
--This has been going on longer than I thought...

pg 10: "What else had I missed while hiding away"
--Interesting turn here. I don't totally believe that S would have missed all of this, unless S never went anywhere. Why did R accept S as an apprentice, then? Or are the alchemists and witches doing better than the other guilds?

[industrialistDragon]

 

So is a believable 17-year-old. The chapters work better in YA format

 

 I agree with @Mandamon re "exponentially." It needs to go. 

"dust soon mutated to thick, fat flakes"  Was it snowing before? I seem to remember thick snow being mentioned last chapter, not light snow. How does snow ice with breathing? Is ice a verb in this context?  I'm really confused about the weather here. 

I think i'm just having adjective issues in general, because how is body-heat "well-earned" and what the heck did So do to earn it? So has done a whole lot of not much besides awkwardly cuddle Ma and refuse to explain much.

"as the trees ... were scrubby" Weren't they just in a large forest where Ma got lost from sight immediately and So was able to run around, grab onto, and slide down multiple trees large enough to withstand the weight of a person?

"Despite the hour "  I rather thought it was morning, or at most early afternoon based on last chapter.

"in the starlight" so it's full night? I thought from the earlier sentence it was sunset.  I have no idea what time of day it really is at the moment. 

"guild musicians are expensive" and no one else plays instruments? If music is traditionally part of the festival I'd expect someone out with a homemade jug band or washboard-analog if nothing else more sophisticated.

"could figure out what to say" I agree with @Mandamon here. why does So need to say anything to a stranger brushing past on the way out, guild member or not? 

I agree with @Mandamonre the metal tables. 

"if she’s trying to stay disguised" -- I didn't think Ma was in disguise... at all? Was there any mention of disguises or going undercover at all in the lead up to the search?  I feel like I'm not remembering any this time around just "I'm going to the negotiations and going to search for queen mom along the way you should come and look for moms too (so i can also watch you in case you're a kidnapper/possible accessory to regicide)"

I agree with @Mandamon re "So the alchemist" -- I'd thought the barmaid had left after delivering the food.  Also, "So the alchemist" sounds really weird. Like, when did So start claiming that title? Whould someone who's SO ATTUNED to guild rankings, guilded vs unguilded status, and so sensitized to guild titles and the differences between them, just claim a guild affiliation and title without any modifiers (and without having even a formal apprenticeship to say nothing of that all-important tattoo). Like, Ma doesn't even look askance at this assumption of not just affiliation, but full mastery. 

"the cloth of her chair" weren't the chairs wood when they came in?

"too slowly for me to notice" Uh, it just happened pretty quickly? Like, exactly when K said the boarders were guilded and So started mentioning guilds... which was just a sentence or two ago? And that was a pretty quick turn to my mind. 

While it's better in this version than last, I don't think the natural declination of the guilds is telegraphed well enough for this reveal to have as much impact as it's supposed to. I feel like there should have been other oddities earlier for So to put together with this, rather than just having So instantly believing some random unguilded barkeeper about guild issues. To go to Mndamon's issues, maybe there needs to be an interlude before this showing how insulated moms has kept So?  I don't know. It's a nice reveal, much better than the old version, but it's still not landing quite right. 

[Robinski]

Comments. LBLs sent separately.

• “M’s head shot up“ – I don't believe this. She's got long experience in court, and as a kind of officer/soldier of the state - surely she would not react in such a transparent and revealing way.
• “Unbound guilds are still guilds…” – This is pretty maid-and-butler; would the woman not know this well enough?
• “We have to leave after lunch tomorrow…” – Isn't this incredibly late for travelling? Unless of course they have something to do here, but I'm not aware of that (or haven't remembered it).
• “It’s been this way for years. The guilds are dead” – Hmm, I struggle with his a bit. Would such news not have found its way back to the capital, in the space of a whole five years?!

Yes, I am enjoying the story. There is tidying to be done in some of the language and word choice, I think, but the pace is good, and I enjoy the shorter chapters. The absence of any attendants still bothers me: it’s so improbable, to me. I think you might tackle it by showing M arguing with a minister back in the palace about going out alone, or have her relate the argument to S once they are on the road. Maybe S questions the lack of attendants. If she had a couple, she could send them back to the city from here, or still lose them in the fight.

<R>

[Asmodemon]

Don’t have much to add to what ‘s already been said. I liked the chapter, though I was a bit surprised that S. knew absolutely nothing about the decline of the guilds. If the guilds are in decline, that might reveal itself in the amount of orders they got, hiding away in the woods, which might have given S. an inclination. And though S. hated going into the village I was under the impression that S. still went there, from time to time. It’s hard to believe S. never picked up any rumors whatsoever.

 

Aside from that, the biggest thing that still bugs me (and that isn’t going to go away) is that M. and S. are out alone, without any guards, and without a proper disguise as even an innkeeper in a border town knows the royal daughter on sight. Even forgetting about the missing queen and missing guild masters, and whoever’s behind those troubles, they’d get in trouble with any small time thug wanting to make a bit of money out of kidnapping the royal daughter.

[kais]

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

Still not completely sure S would have missed the demise of the guilds-

I've gone back to chapter one and called this out directly, so that readers know from the start how isolated S was.

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

but practially, it only works for a short time before things hit absolute zero.

But it works as hyperbole, right?

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

Just because the man is a guild member?

Yes? If it's problematic I can just take the line out.

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

Yes, wood is scarse, but I'd think processed metal tables would still be more expensive than importing wood tables

I was trying to show guild worldbuilding here, but if it sticks out to weirdly I'll just change it. 

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

too long between the last dialogue

Fair. I'll have the innkeeper prod

On 5/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mandamon said:

I don't totally believe that S would have missed all of this, unless S never went anywhere.

S did not go anywhere. Have added hard lines about this in chapter one to establish that moms literally kept S in that patch of forest for years and did not willingly disseminate information.

Thank you for these! Very helpful!

 

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

How does snow ice with breathing?

It does, and it's very uncomfortable. I'm not fond of it. Blech.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Weren't they just in a large forest where Ma got lost from sight immediately and So was able to run around, grab onto, and slide down multiple trees large enough to withstand the weight of a person?

It's a forest of spindly trees. I'll go back and make that more clear in the previous chapter but also they're getting closer to the tree line, so the trees are getting thinner. I'll try to make that more apparent.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

I have no idea what time of day it really is at the moment. 

Have fixed

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

why does So need to say anything to a stranger brushing past on the way out, guild member or not? 

Meh. I'll just delete it.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

 I didn't think Ma was in disguise... at all?

No, she's not. This is supposed to be S's assumption that M wants to remain unnoticed, because S wants to, generally, be unnoticed. I'll have to think of a better way to show this.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Like, when did So start claiming that title?

It was supposed to show S relaxing. I'll mitigate it.

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

weren't the chairs wood when they came in?

Should have said 'cloth covering'. 

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

too slowly for me to notice

I'll just delete that section

On 5/8/2018 at 4:52 PM, industrialistDragon said:

o go to Mndamon's issues, maybe there needs to be an interlude before this showing how insulated moms has kept So?  I don't know. It's a nice reveal, much better than the old version, but it's still not landing quite right. 

I think the edits to chapter one fix this! Well, I hope so anyway. Thank you for the feedback!

[industrialistDragon]

2 minutes ago, kais said:

It does, and it's very uncomfortable. I'm not fond of it. Blech.

My issue was less with the phenomenon than with the word usage. It sounds like an editing error to me, as do several phrases in this section, which is what I was trying to get at. 

[kais]

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Robinski said:

surely she would not react in such a transparent and revealing way

I'll make this less noticeable

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Robinski said:

would the woman not know this well enough?

S is trying to argue a point that basically no one gets (because it's false). I'll try to fix this up

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Robinski said:

Isn't this incredibly late for travelling?

WRS I think? They have to ask around to see if anyone has seen the glass guy, since that's why they came to the town to start with

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Robinski said:

Would such news not have found its way back to the capital, in the space of a whole five years?!

Hmm... I was trying to set up how isolated this town was. Sounds like I need to do a better job. 

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Robinski said:

I think you might tackle it by showing M arguing with a minister back in the palace about going out alone

Actually, this might work well! Going to go try it out now. Thank you for these, and the LBLs!

 

On 5/15/2018 at 0:14 PM, Asmodemon said:

And though S. hated going into the village I was under the impression that S. still went there, from time to time. It’s hard to believe S. never picked up any rumors whatsoever.

I'll add to the blurb when subbing new chapters that S has been in almost complete isolation. That should help this

On 5/15/2018 at 0:14 PM, Asmodemon said:

they’d get in trouble with any small time thug wanting to make a bit of money out of kidnapping the royal daughter.

And in fact, they do! More to come. Also I've taken @Robinski's suggestion about how to address the guard thing. I think it helps!

Thank you!

[kais]

21 minutes ago, industrialistDragon said:

It sounds like an editing error to me, as do several phrases in this section, which is what I was trying to get at. 

Oooh, I see. I can fix those for sure.