What do you imagine Alethi Food is like? (Earth Food Comparison)

[elbereth_gilthoniel]

Okay, so I've been digging around a bit and I haven't found any recent posts about Rosharan food. If there is a post about it, apologies!

I've always been interested in food and reading SA has made me curious about what everyone else imagines Alethi food is as they read about it.  I know Brandon says that if he had to compare the Alethi to humans on earth, they would be a mix of the Polynesian and Middle Eastern/Asian races, so I've kind of always imagined Alethi food to be similar to Thai, Indian and Middle Eastern foods.  Maybe even some Szechuan dishes to up the spice factor that is so present in the men's food? My focus is going to be Thai curry because I'm more familiar with Thai food than I am with the other too aside from Indian butter chicken and chicken korma...

Just in case you aren't familiar with Thai curry:

• Green Curry:  coconut milk and fresh green chillies, not necessarily sweeter than other Thai curries, it tends to be more pungent. Spiciest of the curries.
• Red Curry:  made with dried red chilies. On the spicier end of the Thai curry spectrum. More savory than green curry
• Panang curry:  a variant of red curry.  Tends to be sweeter and more mild, nutty and thicker 
• Massaman curry:  influenced by Indian and Malasian cooking, most mild of all curries and tends to be on the sweeter side as well

I didn't include all the varieties because there are soo many, but I think that's a decent sample size.

Back to the food comparisons! Here are some excerpts from the books that describe Alethi "men's food":  

Quote

The leader of the former deserters held a small bowl of steaming curry from the dinner cauldron. Shallan could smell the pungent peppers. While it would have made a nice change from the stew she’d eaten with the slavers, the caravan had proper women’s food, which she was obliged to eat. Maybe she could sneak a bite of the curry when nobody was looking.

WoR Chapter 24

Quote

“Tyn sat cross-legged after flipping her coat out behind her. She dug into her meal, dipping flatbread in a curry that seemed too dark—and smelled too peppery—to be feminine.
“Men’s food?” Shallan asked.

WoR Chapter 24

Quote

“Kal had rarely eaten such fine food; he tried not to make a fool of himself as he hesitantly took a skewer and imitated Roshone, using his knife to slide down the bottommost chunk of meat, then raising it and biting. The meat was savory and tender, though the spices were much hotter than he was accustomed to.

...

“Very well,” Roshone said, taking a piece of flatbread from the basket and wrapping it around his skewer, pulling off several vegetable chunks at once and eating them with the bread.” 

We see that men's food is typically meat kabobs, stews and curries and that they are spicy and full of peppers. I imagine that the men's food would include dishes akin to Thai green curry, Gaeng Pah Muu (jungle curry) and red curry, Indian Vindaloo, Phaal curry etc,. We also see a lot of flat bread type things that they use as vehicles to bring meat and vegetables to their mouths, similar to naan.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm more familiar with Thai food than Indian and Middle Eastern food, so I'm sure I'm missing out on a whole bunch of dishes that could be compared/associated with men's food in the books.

Now onto Alethi women's food:

Quote

“ It appeared to also have been made with the exotic chicken, but had been mixed with steamed methi fruit and covered in a reddish-brown sauce. As a boy, Dalinar had secretly tried women’s food out of curiosity. He’d found it distastefully sweet. 

TWoK Chapter 22

and this,

Quote

“Shallan’s own meal was more proper, smelling sweet rather than savory.”

WoR, 24

So the women's food is little less Earth-like, but I imagine their food being more similar to Thai Panang (my personal favorite) and Massaman curries. They're both sweeter and typically more mild than other Thai curries are.

Anyway, thoughts? Is it just me that thinks this obsessively about Alethi food and their Earth counterparts, or have others thought about this as well? 

[Willow]

On 2-4-2018 at 10:48 PM, elbereth_gilthoniel said:

Anyway, thoughts? Is it just me that thinks this obsessively about Alethi food and their Earth counterparts, or have others thought about this as well?

It is a fascinating subject, mostly because it seems so needlessly complicated sometimes.  

I'm always surprised by just how strict this food divide seems to be on Roshar. Basically everything that women eat is sweet or sweetened in some way, and to be honest, it sounds rather boring. At least spiciness can be combined with other tastes. On the other hand, it seems only women can eat fruit? It doesn't seem like Vorins have a very balanced diet either way.

This might be slightly off-topic, but your comment about  the 'bread as a vehicle for food' got me to research the utensils they use to eat all this food. We mostly see men eat with their hands, or a knife. The skewers seem to be more like kabobs, and they'd use bread (and their hands?) to get the food off the skewer. The knife is used to either stab bits of food, which they then bring to their mouth (sounds unsafe), or to cut food into small pieces, which they then use their hands to eat.

Quote

"..turning back to his meal, stabbing a chunk of peppered chicken with his knife and raising it to his lips."

tWoK, chapter 22

Quote

"He slid out his knife and sliced a disk off the end of the stagm. Using his knife to spread tallew over the top, he grasped the vegetable disk between two fingers and began to eat."

tWoK, chapter 54

Men also use spoons to eat stews (and probably soups)

Quote

"He took another spoonful of stew."

tWoK, chapter 73

Both men and women eat with skewers, but the actual way they use them is different. For women they seem to be used in a way similar to how we use forks.

Quote

"..using her freehand and a skewer to spear chunks of vegetable or fruit."

"..eating a small green lurnip from the end of her skewer."

tWoK, chapter 19

On earth, forks are actually a fascinating and relatively new development in the world of cutlery. Both knives and spoons are ancient, but forks didn't really become generally accepted in Western Europe until the middle of the 18th century. And of course, I think they are still not generally used in most Asian cuisines. I also think Thai (and Indian) cuisine, which you mentioned, are traditionally eaten with your hands.

So the way they use utensils is more in line with, say, France after 1800. This is also the period from which Brandon Sanderson drew inspiration for the military coats of the men:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)
The coats that the Alethi wear, that the officers wear. Is it a Prussian sort of thing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
I'm thinking in my head probably French early 1800's. Just past Napoleonic. Bound tails.

So this is separate from the specific food analysis, but it's interesting to see how these different influences were combined to inspire this part of Alethi culture, and also how it fits within the other things we know about this culture.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Willow

[Philomath]

I'm not very knowledgeable about Asian or Middle Eastern cuisine but this is a fascinating question to me. I wonder how sweet feminine food actually is for them. What is interesting is how much variety in the dishes Brandon describes for each gender despite the limitations that each has. The only dish that gets mentioned multiple times is Rock's stew. I also wonder what more ordinary food is like on a day to day basis. Most of the food described seems to be at feasts or more formal occasions. 

We should make a Rosharan (or cosmere) cookbook. I would definitely cook things out of that. 

[elbereth_gilthoniel]

20 hours ago, Philomath said:

I'm not very knowledgeable about Asian or Middle Eastern cuisine but this is a fascinating question to me. I wonder how sweet feminine food actually is for them. What is interesting is how much variety in the dishes Brandon describes for each gender despite the limitations that each has. The only dish that gets mentioned multiple times is Rock's stew. I also wonder what more ordinary food is like on a day to day basis. Most of the food described seems to be at feasts or more formal occasions. 

We should make a Rosharan (or cosmere) cookbook. I would definitely cook things out of that. 

I'm not super familiar with it either, just the bare minimum. Mostly just from the Thai restaurants my husband and I love visiting. And our few forays into Indian restaurants... 

You bring up an interesting point with the sweetness of women's food. Is it dessert sweet or is it savory sweet food? Until recently, I was imagining their food more like dessert sweet stuff, especially since everything seems to have fruit in it. But if that were the case, there would definitely be some presence of obesity in their world. Unless they all have amazing metabolism or their bodies process food differently from other humans. Since I've starting thinking more about the similarities Alethi food might share with Eastern cuisine, I'm starting to think maybe its more savory sweet like Panaang curry and the like. 

 I hope that Brandon goes into their cuisine more, but I doubt it. I would ask him at a signing, but he doesn't come to Tennessee. Hopefully someone who can ask will ask more about Alethi cuisine!

[Willow]

23 hours ago, Philomath said:

I also wonder what more ordinary food is like on a day to day basis. Most of the food described seems to be at feasts or more formal occasions. 

I think more ordinary food would be grain + vegetable + a sauce that's added later, which is either spicy or sweet. Cooking two completely separate meals would be too much effort for every day. The flashback of Kaladin at Roshone's mansion tells us some interesting things, specifically, that he has eaten pork before. Now, Kaladin's family is pretty high ranked, so I'm guessing most people have to live with just the grain and vegetable combo, with soulcast meat added on occasion.

Also, Rock's stew is a spicy seafood stew:
 

Quote

Questioner
If you were going to make Horneater stew here on Earth, how would you go about it?

Brandon Sanderson
If I were going to make Horneater stew, on Earth, how would I go about it. It's going to be a spicy seafood stew. When I think of Horneater stew I'm actually thinking of [Korean word(s?)] which is a Korean dish. Or [different Korean word] is what I mean. [The second one again] is a spicy-- spicy seafood-- basically whatever thing from the ocean-- I don't eat things from the ocean usually-- but everything from the ocean they want to throw in there with some spices. They stir it up and give it to you and you fish in there and there are like crab claws and full clams in the shells. You're like "Really guys?" But Rock would just be munching those down and being happy.

So we have at least one recipe for the cookbook.

2 hours ago, elbereth_gilthoniel said:

You bring up an interesting point with the sweetness of women's food. Is it dessert sweet or is it savory sweet food? Until recently, I was imagining their food more like dessert sweet stuff, especially since everything seems to have fruit in it. But if that were the case, there would definitely be some presence of obesity in their world. Unless they all have amazing metabolism or their bodies process food differently from other humans. Since I've starting thinking more about the similarities Alethi food might share with Eastern cuisine, I'm starting to think maybe its more savory sweet like Panaang curry and the like. 

This is unfortunately not the Oathbringer forum, so we're missing out on some information, but I think a lot of the sweetness would come from fruits + sweeter vegetables mixed through the food. But they must have some more savory sweet foods as well, especially for the curries.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Willow

[Philomath]

I need to try more Thai and Indian food. To pull from what I do know, I wonder if the sweetness is comparable to an orange or lemon chicken. Sweet but not overly so. With something else to offset it. 

5 minutes ago, Willow said:

I think more ordinary food would be grain + vegetable + a sauce that's added later, which is either spicy or sweet. Cooking two completely separate meals would be too much effort for every day. The flashback of Kaladin at Roshone's mansion tells us some interesting things, specifically, that he has eaten pork before. Now, Kaladin's family is pretty high ranked, so I'm guessing most people have to live with just the grain and vegetable combo, with soulcast meat added on occasion.

That would make sense. Just making separate sauces over what is essentially the same thing. And I imagine for some of the less fortunate that they would actually be lucky to get more than the grain. 

[Willow]

16 hours ago, elbereth_gilthoniel said:

Until recently, I was imagining their food more like dessert sweet stuff, especially since everything seems to have fruit in it.

I found another quote that is interesting:

Quote

"Indeed," Shallan said. "So what else does that book of yours say about me - and half the world's population - because of our enjoyment of foods with far too much sugar in them?"

tWoK, chapter 33

This quote is about jam, but it shows they're not just eating natural sugars and sweeter foods, but that it's possible they're actively adding extra sugar to other meals to make them sweeter.

[SilverTiger]

Does anyone know the different kinds of fruits, vegetables, and other ingredients there are, in Alethkar and/or Jah Keved? Because that might help (and I'm curious).

Also, I imagine that women's food might use creamy sauces (Ranch dressing), while men's food is more water+meat juices+spices sauces. Also, women's food uses fruit, bread, and some vegetables and meat. Men's food (in my opinion) probably has more meat and vegetables in it, and uses flatbread simply as a vehicle for getting said meat and veggies into the mouth. Probably uses less sauce overall, too.

So, men's food is going to be spicy, meat and vegetable dishes with little to no sauce. The vegetable likely take second place to the meat in more complex dishes. They probably need a lot of wine to go with it, too.

Women's food, on the other hand, primarily uses fruit and bread; with thicker, creamy sauces. There is meat in more complex dishes, but not in simple dishes; and meat is either second fiddle or equal to the fruit. May use vegetables as well, but probably sweeter/juicier ones. The bread is probably not flatbread, more like a dinner roll, and probably has slightly more importance-> several types of bread, with different uses.

I also suspect that the presentation of dishes is different. Men's food has very little ornamentation, and is not arranged on the plate very much. Women's food is very much arranged on the plate, uses extra ingredients that don't add flavor, just aesthetics; basically, it looks nice. Men's food is just dumped on a plate.

A note: when I talk about simple dishes, I mean stuff that is easily prepared and eaten, like sandwiches and grilled kabobs. Complex dishes is like stuff at a nice restaurant: takes more ingredients and preparation, and you need to sit down to eat it.

Also, on savory vs dessert sweet for women's food, I actually think it might be both: some dishes are savory, some are dessert-like. Men's food is spicy, but not necessarily spicy-hot.

Has anyone considered that Horneater stew is like gumbo? Gumbo is a spicy stew in south Louisiana that has vegetables and meat in it.

[AC12]

I typically think of men's food as similar to Ethiopian food. If you haven't had a chance to try it do so because it is delicious. It is completely made up of various spicy curries and stews that is served with a local flat bread called injera.  Their are man varieties of stews (called wats) with both meat and vegetables that are typically made with a local spice called berberre, which is a blend of different spicy peppers. They also have one called shiro which is made out of chickpeas and has a very curry like flavor.

[earthexile]

Chouta makes me think of falafel, although I know that isn't right. Chouta is fried meatballs in gravy, wrapped in a flatbread, although soulcast meat might be nearly as boring as ground chick peas. I find it amusing that Kaladin is offended by the idea of eating while working, that seems like the sort of thing soldiers would get used to quickly. Maybe Alethi food taboos are more extensive than I realized.

The 'chicken' concept also got me thinking- if every bird on Roshar is known as a chicken... then how do we know what kind of bird the characters are actually eating? The obvious implication is that they're eating the kind of bird we call a chicken, but on Roshar a chicken could be a turkey, or an eagle, or a raven. We know they have geese because Rock identifies a goose-feathered arrow. I wonder what spicy curried parakeet tastes like.

[AC12]

On 4/22/2018 at 5:09 AM, earthexile said:

I find it amusing that Kaladin is offended by the idea of eating while working, that seems like the sort of thing soldiers would get used to quickly.

I forgot about that but here is another random fact about African cuisine. In many African countries, particularly Kenya, Uganda, and the Congo it is considered very rude to eat while working or moving about. Even eating a snack while walking down the street is rude. Don't know how much Brandon was influenced by Africa, but there are certainly parallels.