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[OB] Overloading a gem


Zelly

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We don't know the mechanics very well yet, but is it possible to overload or overfill a gem with investiture?

The Radiants have been shown able to transfer stormlight to other objects.  Would a gem reach capacity and stop accepting more or would it crack?

I feel like we've seen instances of gems cracking, but I can't think of when.

Could an overfilled gem be what is happening when Queen A and later Amaram when trying to digest/absorb/bond with Yelig-nar? 

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I don't think they can.  Everyone/thing was supercharged when Dalinar combined the Realms and none of the gems shattered, that was described to us.  They either took the overcharge without trouble, or got their normal charge, and then stopped.

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On 3/18/2018 at 6:33 AM, Zellyia said:

I feel like we've seen instances of gems cracking, but I can't think of when.

We've seen gems crack when used in Soulcasting, of both the fabrial and Radiant-directed varieties. It's mentioned in the books that one thing that's especially important about gemhearts is that their size makes them less susceptible to cracking.

Quote
Really, warfare is where they've learned to extend themselves, and depend on the soulcasters. Remember, gemstones in them DO break, so you do still need a ready supply of emeralds. The larger, the better. source

I think Mestiv is right in that a gem will simply stop storing Stormlight when it hits its capacity rather than be damaged, much like how a metalmind can become 'full' but there's no indication you can damage one by trying to store beyond its capacity. The excess Stormlight then would either be available for the Radiant to reclaim it or if they didn't, it would evaporate in a short while.

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I think the gem cracking has to do with the quality and cut more than anything else.  We have seen that perfect gems hold light indefinitely.  But inferior gems leak like sieves. If the gem is flawed, or poorly cut, I think it has a higher chance of cracking. 

To continue @Mestiv's glass of water analogy, with a perfect gem, a perfect container, we can fill and refill the gem to capacity ad infinitum.  But if there is a flaw in the gem, it is like using a flawed or cracked glass to drink from.  It may work the first few times, and it may Hold liquid for a while before it all leaks out.  But, eventually, the repeated stress from filling and refilling will widen the flaw in the glass until it finally breaks - cracking beyond usefulness or coming apart outright.

That said, don't drink from a broken glass, its a bad plan.

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Even perfect gems would shatter eventually.  Spoilered for length.

Spoiler

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Where are the rest of Roshar's named gems? Like, we have the Hope diamond, we've got dozens of...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

A lot of them are in the gem warehouse, what did I end up calling that? This is where you get me on the spot. Eh, I called it something cool. There's a lot of them around and there are places like that. One of the tricks, and I actually kind of was aware of this, particularly in book three, I was like "Yeah, I maybe should have named some of these things earlier." One of the tricks with a book like Way of Kings, there are already so many new names and terms that oftentimes I find myself finding ways to not include a new name or term because the overwhelming nature of the learning curve is so big. And I will admit, writing book three I'm like, "Ah, I should have named some of these earlier," this is what they would do.

But it's kind of this Occam's razor, well, that's the wrong term. It's this idea of "Let's try to keep it as simple as possible for that fact that it's really complex." and that's why I naturally just didn't do it. 

I would say in-world a lot of them are named. But you've also got to remember that gems are not as eternal on Roshar as they are. They are a little more ephemeral, you will often end up using them for something and they are wearing out, so to speak. So the idea that a diamond is forever is more of an Earth concept than a Roshar concept.

Footnote: Brandon appears to be referring to the Thaylen Gemstone Reserve here
source

I kind of see it like the way some opals will absorb water.  You should be able to soak and dry them a number of times, but eventually, doing so is going to make them crack and fracture.  Microscopic impurities or flaws, and the like.

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19 hours ago, RShara said:

Even perfect gems would shatter eventually.

I'm going to disagree with you on this for now.  Your WOB, while really neat, does not address the long term viability of the so-called perfect gems, like the one seen in Thaylen city.  I think the life span of gems is almost like a limit function, where the lifespan goes to infinity as you approach perfection.  Except, this is a magic system, and we do see perfect gems.  So if you have a molecularly perfect gem, cut perfectly, something a Shard could create, I think it can be reused an infinite number of times - provided no one takes a hammer to it and breaks it into a useless state.

Spoiler

Alteroden

With Stormlight, the better the gem is cut, the less Stormlight it leaks, and the longer it holds its charge. If a gem was perfectly cut, on a molecular scale, would it leak Stormlight at all?

Brandon Sanderson

In a theoretical flawless gem, then no it would not.

Alteroden

Would it actually give off light?

Brandon Sanderson

[...] Theoretically no it would not, but it's not what you're thinking...

Alteroden

No no no, that’s not what I’m thinking, I figured that’s something totally different.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, actually, it probably would still give off light, because it's drawing out of the Spiritual Realm. So I’d say it still lights, but it doesn't leak. The leaking is not where the illumination is coming from. The illumination is coming from a direct... It's basically a light bulb screwed into the Spiritual Realm.

source

 

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29 minutes ago, Stark said:

I'm going to disagree with you on this for now.  Your WOB, while really neat, does not address the long term viability of the so-called perfect gems, like the one seen in Thaylen city.  I think the life span of gems is almost like a limit function, where the lifespan goes to infinity as you approach perfection.  Except, this is a magic system, and we do see perfect gems.  So if you have a molecularly perfect gem, cut perfectly, something a Shard could create, I think it can be reused an infinite number of times - provided no one takes a hammer to it and breaks it into a useless state.

  Reveal hidden contents

Alteroden

With Stormlight, the better the gem is cut, the less Stormlight it leaks, and the longer it holds its charge. If a gem was perfectly cut, on a molecular scale, would it leak Stormlight at all?

Brandon Sanderson

In a theoretical flawless gem, then no it would not.

Alteroden

Would it actually give off light?

Brandon Sanderson

[...] Theoretically no it would not, but it's not what you're thinking...

Alteroden

No no no, that’s not what I’m thinking, I figured that’s something totally different.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, actually, it probably would still give off light, because it's drawing out of the Spiritual Realm. So I’d say it still lights, but it doesn't leak. The leaking is not where the illumination is coming from. The illumination is coming from a direct... It's basically a light bulb screwed into the Spiritual Realm.

source

 

 

20 hours ago, RShara said:

Even perfect gems would shatter eventually.  Spoilered for length.

  Hide contents

 

I kind of see it like the way some opals will absorb water.  You should be able to soak and dry them a number of times, but eventually, doing so is going to make them crack and fracture.  Microscopic impurities or flaws, and the like.

So... if the gems break because the drain-fill cycle puts stress on the gem, and the impurities/imperfections are weak points that cause the gem to break...

...wouldn’t “perfect” gems, which have no impurities/imperfections, be unaffected by the drain-fill cycle, and thus not break as a result?

Edited by lopens_cousin
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1 hour ago, lopens_cousin said:

So... if the gems break because the drain-fill cycle puts stress on the gem, and the impurities/imperfections are weak points that cause the gem to break...

...wouldn’t “perfect” gems, which have no impurities/imperfections, be unaffected by the drain-fill cycle, and thus not break as a result?

So this is the thought I was trying to express.  Thanks for summing it up succinctly.

I think what it comes down to is that real world perfect gems are purely theoretical and not naturally occurring.  But in the Cosmere, with semi-divine intervention, there could realistically exist perfect gems, free of any flaw or impurity, immune to the stress of the drain/fill cycle.

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