Jedidiah Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm sure some of you could easily answer this: I understand that the Stormfather is Jezrien, but how does that make him a sliver of Honor? It seemed that in Dalinar's final visions in WoR, the Stormfather revealed that he was a sliver of Honor. Does that mean that the Heralds were slivers, and that was their connection to Honor, or did I misread something? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 As far as I understand, it the Stormfather isn't Jezrien at all, that's just a name associated with him - which granted will affect his Cognitive aspect. He's a Splinter of Honor, in his own words both spren and god (Proof of spren is that he bonded Dalinar). I'm not entirely sure how the splinter thing works, but I would also say that the Stormfather is unlike any being we have yet seen in the Cosmere (Though I wonder if the Stormfather is the same type of 'being' (for lack of a better word) as Cultivation/The Nightwatcher. Do we know if she's still alive?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedidiah Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Ok, that's more of what I thought until I saw Jezrien equated with the Stormfather on the Coppermind Wiki when I looked up the Stormfather. It seemed to me that the Stormfather is to Honor what (maybe) the Nightwatcher is to Cultivation--although we'll just have to read on for those answers, I suppose. And, unless someone else knows something I don't (which plenty here do), I don't think there's any reason to believe that Cultivation is dead or splintered. Thanks! Edited March 12, 2014 by Jedidiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Definitely the characters equate Jezrien/Jezerezeh with the Stormfather though. It just occured to me also, that I'm 99% sure Jezrien is associated with Honour/the Windrunners. So if the Stormfather is a splinter of Honour then it defintely has some kind of connection to Jezrien through honour, but the other Heralds we've seen (Nalan and Taln) are human, not giant faces in clouds. So...we'll have to RAFO? Edit: Except that would make the Stormfather an honourspren? Who Dalinar as a Bondsmith bonds with. So I'm wondering how many kinds of Nahel-bond spren there are. I had previously assumed honourspren = Honour, Cryptics = Cultivation, Voidspren = Odium, which would fit Dalinar bonding with an honourspren. But I see mention around of Highspren for the Skybreakers, so now I'm confused if each Order had their own form of spren? Jasnah definitely had a Cryptic as an Elsecaller, not a Lightweaver, so......where did the highspren thing come from? Edited March 12, 2014 by Delightful 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricree Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Jasnah definitely had a Cryptic as an Elsecaller Did you mean didn't have? Because she explicitly had a different sort of spren than Shallan. "I had originally hoped we would have the same type of spren ... But of course, that would be too easy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 The like between the Stormfather an Jezrien is part of Vorin teachings, which are corrupted since the Heirocracy. I would speculate that the priests linked the two in an effort to distance the nature of the Stormfather from the Radiants who they vilified for their betrayal. The Spren that Dalinar and Kaladin talk two refers to himself as the piece of Honor that is left after the splintering of the Shard. I guess, since he is a cognitive aspect of Honor himself in many ways, that he is the father of all the Nahel spren (with Cultivation the mother). I would guess that his seeming affinity for the honorspren is due to the fact that they are (speculatively) almost purely of honor and very little to none of cultivation. I think the intereting thing will be how the bond with Dalinar changes the Stormfather. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Did you mean didn't have? Because she explicitly had a different sort of spren than Shallan. "I had originally hoped we would have the same type of spren ... But of course, that would be too easy." I thought Ivory was a Cryptic, but going back looking for a quote lead me to Jasnah saying "the Cryptics have a fearful reputation, and yet this one - the first specimen I've ever seen..."So I was wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistdork Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 As far as I understand, it the Stormfather isn't Jezrien at all, that's just a name associated with him - which granted will affect his Cognitive aspect. He's a Splinter of Honor, in his own words both spren and god (Proof of spren is that he bonded Dalinar). I'm not entirely sure how the splinter thing works, but I would also say that the Stormfather is unlike any being we have yet seen in the Cosmere (Though I wonder if the Stormfather is the same type of 'being' (for lack of a better word) as Cultivation/The Nightwatcher. Do we know if she's still alive?). Technically, there should be nine different bondable spren-categories other than the three god-spren bonded by Bondsmiths. While we don't know the names of these different groups of spren, we can infer that they exist and that the spren different orders of KR bond are from these groups...You could even say there are ten if you want to count god-spren as another group, but I think it might be possible that a god-spren could be a 'super' spren of one of the other groups. Stormfather being a...super Honor spren and Nightwatcher [if she is just a spren] being another example, probably a 'super' spren of whatever Wyndle is (mini-cultivation spren, maybe?) And yeah, if there are cultivation spren bonding people and making them KR, that might mean that not all KR bondable spren are splinters of Honor, maybe there's even a spren that combines their two intents... I guess, since he is a cognitive aspect of Honor himself in many ways, that he is the father of all the Nahel spren (with Cultivation the mother). I would guess that his seeming affinity for the honorspren is due to the fact that they are (speculatively) almost purely of honor and very little to none of cultivation. At the end of the book, though, I noticed that...Stormfather calls himself the Sliver of Honor (1071, Kindle Edition, when he's talking to Dalinar on top of that tower in Urithiru), not just a Splinter, this seemed a little odd. The Splinter thing seemed obvious, but being a Sliver means he is the remnant of the person called Tanavast, kind of like another entity in Mistborn, though in this case, god is dead. It's not just kind of, he is the Sliver of Honor's cognitive aspect, he admits it himself It's sad though, all Honor has left is a storming, half-mad coward (yeah, I don't think much of Stormfather...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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