Adonalsium wasn't originally whole theory

[MoHaam]

so I have been doing some speculation with my friend @Nohadon and we came up with a couple of questions about the shards. what if, before adonalysm came to life, all of the shards were separate beings and then for some reason all the vessels (or one of the vessels) decided to try and merge together to see what would happen which in the end resulted in the birth of adonalysm. some things that might support this are the different personalities of the shards such as ruin and preservation. Another thing is how easily the shards fused together when Sazed touched them and how well the powers went together as Sazed mentioned. 

[Nohadon]

Its a possibility we were thinking about, but after browsing the Arcanum, I can't find any hints on it from Brandon himself, although I can't find anyone asking this. so it's worth a shot if anyone going to a signing can ask this for us.

[Leyrann]

That would not explain that the Shards could have Shattered differently.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218-words-of-radiance-chicago-signing/#e6634

Quote

Eric

If Adonalsium Shattered with intent, would he always Shatter with the same Shards?

Brandon Sanderson

It is plausible that it could've gone a different way.

Eric

So it could've been different Shards?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that's plausible.

Edit: For the record, there are theories about multiple Adonalsiums, but I doubt this as origin story of Adonalsium, even if only because it then begs the question "where did the Shards come from?"

Edited March 1, 2018 by Leyrann

[Strifelover]

5 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Edit: For the record, there are theories about multiple Adonalsiums, but I doubt this as origin story of Adonalsium, even if only because it then begs the question "where did the Shards come from?"

I've seen that theory, that Adonalsium is really just 1/16th of a bigger, more infinite God!! My question is...why? The Cosmere is already such a massive, sprawling and satisfyingly rich universe for our stories' settings, that I see no narrative value in that sort of a reveal. It would also seem to run very counter to Brandon's writing style - he seems to like to set up the rules and then have his characters operate and his story play out within them. Having some big Deus Ex Machina where everything we knew was wrong would totally go against that style.

[Leyrann]

2 minutes ago, Strifelover said:

I've seen that theory, that Adonalsium is really just 1/16th of a bigger, more infinite God!! My question is...why? The Cosmere is already such a massive, sprawling and satisfyingly rich universe for our stories' settings, that I see no narrative value in that sort of a reveal. It would also seem to run very counter to Brandon's writing style - he seems to like to set up the rules and then have his characters operate and his story play out within them. Having some big Deus Ex Machina where everything we knew was wrong would totally go against that style.

That's not what I'm talking about. There's a theory floating around of Adonalsium breaking into pieces, reforming, breaking into pieces again, etc. It doesn't actually try to explain the origin of Adonalsium, and I just don't think that his origin is "being 16 Shards", because that actually doesn't explain anything, it simply moves the "where does it come from" question from Adonalsium to the Shards. You'd still need to explain where the Shards would come from, which would be just as hard (or easy, actually) to explain where Adonalsium came from, and I would argue that the sixteen Shards forming seperately and then being able to form a cohesive whole would require a whole lot more design than simply Adonalsium emerging.

And of course there's the point that Brandon has flat-out stated (in my above post) that the Shards are not fixed; they could have been different.

[Strifelover]

6 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

That's not what I'm talking about. There's a theory floating around of Adonalsium breaking into pieces, reforming, breaking into pieces again, etc. It doesn't actually try to explain the origin of Adonalsium, and I just don't think that his origin is "being 16 Shards", because that actually doesn't explain anything, it simply moves the "where does it come from" question from Adonalsium to the Shards.

Whoops, sorry about that! Although I agree with you, and my criticism of that theory is more or less the same as the other I referred to. I don't think we need to add any more complexity to Adonalsium > Shattering > Shards and Cosmere Stories than just revealing how that happened and then seeing how it plays out. The setting is already rich enough to provide all story fodder we need, without needing to go back even further than Adonalsium. 

[Zelly]

7 hours ago, Leyrann said:

That's not what I'm talking about. There's a theory floating around of Adonalsium breaking into pieces, reforming, breaking into pieces again, etc. It doesn't actually try to explain the origin of Adonalsium, and I just don't think that his origin is "being 16 Shards", because that actually doesn't explain anything, it simply moves the "where does it come from" question from Adonalsium to the Shards. You'd still need to explain where the Shards would come from, which would be just as hard (or easy, actually) to explain where Adonalsium came from, and I would argue that the sixteen Shards forming seperately and then being able to form a cohesive whole would require a whole lot more design than simply Adonalsium emerging.

Oh wow, I really like this.

What if the Shattering was simply part of the natural life cycle of God?  Odd to us, sure, but for a lifeform totally different than we can really understand....  Energy can't be created or destroyed.  We as a species continue by investing energy into a new generation of individuals. Maybe Adonalsium procreates by shattering and reforming its energy endlessly.

"Unity" might be a primal driving biological need to progress through it's life cycle.

[ArcanumBinded]

15 hours ago, MoHaam said:

so I have been doing some speculation with my friend @Nohadon and we came up with a couple of questions about the shards. what if, before adonalysm came to life, all of the shards were separate beings and then for some reason all the vessels (or one of the vessels) decided to try and merge together to see what would happen which in the end resulted in the birth of adonalysm. some things that might support this are the different personalities of the shards such as ruin and preservation. Another thing is how easily the shards fused together when Sazed touched them and how well the powers went together as Sazed mentioned. 

In my opinion, Adonalsium as an individual is an already a solid plotline. The different Shards represent the many facets or personalities an individual has. I like to think of it as an adult version of Inside Out except the emotions in the protagonist's mind Shattered then became different Shards thus forming their own identities? Also, as you've mentioned, the powers fused well together - initially. However, Sazed also mentioned in Era 2 how he has great diffiuclty acting as one Shard with the powers of Preservation and Ruin as they oppose one another. This can also imply that they can fuse really well at first but they also need the other Shards to function well together - as kind of a neutralizer. 

[Nohadon]

6 hours ago, Zellyia said:

What if the Shattering was simply part of the natural life cycle of God?  Odd to us, sure, but for a lifeform totally different than we can really understand....  Energy can't be created or destroyed.  We as a species continue by investing energy into a new generation of individuals. Maybe Adonalsium procreates by shattering and reforming its energy endlessly.

"Unity" might be a primal driving biological need to progress through it's life cycle.

that would make a lot of sense! there are WoB's commenting on how Adonalsium had plans after its own shattering, so maybe Adonalsium was meant to re-form into itself after it shattered, but didn't expect odium to splinter so many shards.

MAYBE it has been shattered before, but this is the first time that people actively TOOK UP the shards.

[Yata]

8 hours ago, Nohadon said:

MAYBE it has been shattered before, but this is the first time that people actively TOOK UP the shards.

Without a Vessel a Shard would auto-splinter itself/developing a mind to direct itself or start activelly choosing a Vessel...It's extremely unlikely the Shards remains whole and unclaimed

[Nohadon]

41 minutes ago, Yata said:

Without a Vessel a Shard would auto-splinter itself/developing a mind to direct itself or start activelly choosing a Vessel...It's extremely unlikely the Shards remains whole and unclaimed

wait really? vessel-less shards automatically splinter? is there a WoB on that? i sort of gathered from when Leras,

Spoiler

Vin

and Ati died, that the power just stays until someone can take it up again.

[Zelly]

45 minutes ago, Yata said:

Without a Vessel a Shard would auto-splinter itself/developing a mind to direct itself or start activelly choosing a Vessel...

If that is a WoB, it also has some potential implications regarding Adonalsium's vessel and the Shattering. 

(Pretty sure there's a WoB saying Adolnasium had a vessel?).

[Yata]

18 minutes ago, Zellyia said:

If that is a WoB, it also has some potential implications regarding Adonalsium's vessel and the Shattering. 

(Pretty sure there's a WoB saying Adolnasium had a vessel?).

Yeah sorry I didn't posted the source.

Quote

Questioner

Can holders of Shards give them up voluntarily? If so, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a Vessel for a Shard of Adonalsium can give up their power if they wish.

As for what would happen...well, there are some variables in there. Kind of like the variables in what happens to a bucket of water if you dump it out. Depends on where it falls, how strong the wind is, what the air is like.

Power dropped like this, if left alone, could end up Splintering and turning into something like spren/seons. It could become something more like the Stormfather--a large, self-aware entity. It could become something like the Dor or many of the Unmade--something proto-aware, but not truly an individual. There are other possibilities as well, depending on lots of factors. (Are sapient beings involved? what is being done with the power--is it concentrated in the Spiritual Realm as normal, or is it being pushed somewhere else?)

source

And about Adonalsium's vessel, we don't know for sure. I (like others) believe there was no Vessel and Adonalsium a mind generated by the Power itself