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[OB] The Fourth Oath, the Oath of Abandoment


MountainKing

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36 minutes ago, (^_^) said:

Regarding whole "which ideal gives what":

 

- Kaladin used Surges and Stormlight before first Ideal, got shardblade on 3rd, supposedly will get plate on 4th.

- Shallan had blade long long before speaking Truth that allowed her to soulcast (and returned Pattern proper sentience), since then said one more Truth that supposedly put her at 4th Ideal. Which would make her blade avaible somewhere betweeen 0 and 2nd Ideal

- Dalinar was not supposed to ever have a blade, but managed to form one while on 2nd Ideal, and apparently got ability to form Honor singularity from 3rd Ideal

 

So yeah, either we assume that all orders have different progression path, or that certain individuals just can do stuff they shouldn't be able to considering their Ideals progress, and that displayed abilities are not always indication of spoken Ideals.

Oaths don't have to be spoken. Lift summons a shardstaff and then speaks her third oath after confirming that she spoke it in her heart.

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1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

Oaths don't have to be spoken. Lift summons a shardstaff and then speaks her third oath after confirming that she spoke it in her heart.

On the other hand, Lopen speaks second oath by accident, as a part of conversation, which means speaking is required trigger, at least in his case. And that just reinforces what I said - that single occurence of something does not mean it works the same way for everyone.

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2 hours ago, MountainKing said:

I thought that killing her father was not an oath, but that she was just admitting it to Kaladin. And during her teen years her bonds regressed, Pattern and her were bonded during her childhood

She admitted killing her father at the end of WoK, as a truth to the cryptics around her in order to access Shadesmar. But she did have a bond during her childhood, so its unclear as to whether this was a proper Truth, a revival Truth(regaining lost levels), or something else.

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Maybe it goes as far that each Knight Radiant is a rule and an exception on themselves. Dalinar has his kinda-shardblade, Kaladins Spren-Windshield, Shallan's "far-sketching"...

Everybody - including the spren - says that "it should be impossible". But what if all KR do such "impossible" things when they really, really need it? What if each KR has such an "extra feat" in addition to their surges and their order-specific resonance (was that the right word?) abilities? What if the whole Rosharan Magic system is much more individualistic than we suspected?

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1 hour ago, Alfa said:

Maybe it goes as far that each Knight Radiant is a rule and an exception on themselves. Dalinar has his kinda-shardblade, Kaladins Spren-Windshield, Shallan's "far-sketching"...

Everybody - including the spren - says that "it should be impossible". But what if all KR do such "impossible" things when they really, really need it? What if each KR has such an "extra feat" in addition to their surges and their order-specific resonance (was that the right word?) abilities? What if the whole Rosharan Magic system is much more individualistic than we suspected?

I don't like that idea, because I think that the Rosharan magic system is one that can be well explained through general rules, in the same way the Metallic Arts can. I also don't think Kaladin's windshield is impossible (it could be Adhesion or the beginning of Shardplate) and I don't even know what you mean with Shallan's sketching, but we do know that special artistic abilities are common among Lightweavers.

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1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

I don't even know what you mean with Shallan's sketching, but we do know that special artistic abilities are common among Lightweavers.

Her drawing of Shallash

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I’m in the camp that believe Shallan already has plate, as evidenced by the two quotes earlier where Radiant has shardplate and is later the “real” Shallan at the conclusion of the battle for Thaylen city. I think that’s a clever way for Brandon to demonstrate it. I also think Jasnah has plate, as evidenced by the scene where Adolin is following the Sadeas troops going to confront Jasnah when he sees soldiers flying through the air as if thrown, and a “nonplussed” Jasnah standing with geometric shapes fading around her. 

As for the Fourth Oath, abandonment could work as a theme. I think for Kaladin in particular it will be about accepting that he will fail at times, as that seems to be his theme throughout the book. His old flame Tarah said that one day he would “learn to be there for the living instead of just the dead,” or something along those lines, because he focuses on those he’s lost, ie those he’s failed, and lets that hold him back/keep him depressed instead of focusing on being there for the living. 

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5 hours ago, Alfa said:

Maybe it goes as far that each Knight Radiant is a rule and an exception on themselves. Dalinar has his kinda-shardblade, Kaladins Spren-Windshield, Shallan's "far-sketching"...

Kaladin's windshield could just be another use of adhesion. In the Arc Arcanum, Adhesion is described as Manipulation of air pressure(I think that there's more to adhesion then just air pressure and that Khriss has only observed air pressure in used.). Most windrunners and squires only use the one lashing for Adhesion. But it should be possible to manipulate air pressure so that the storm can't get in the space or that it's lessen to just a slight breeze when in a certain radius. Sly would not recognize this as something common because she only had one partner, her live before her long sleep was short, and her partner only made it, at most, to the fourth oath.

Dalinar is a special case because he is a bondsmith and the Stormfather is the equivalent of Tanavest's cognitive shadow.

Pattern, never said it was impossible or not, and he would not known because he would only have rumor and some ancient texts(if spren have text) to work out the abilities of a lightweaver 

Also Shallan's drawing ability works through the cognitive realm(probably or the spiritual realm) so in theory she should be able to draw things she cannot see.

Edited by MountainKing
Fixing Grammar, Adding more points
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 28 February 2018 at 10:29 PM, Roocifer said:

Interesting theory, and I think you might be on to something. That makes perfect sense why Kaladin would have trouble swearing. He's too proud and tries to be superman & save/protect everyone.

Sidenote: Are there any current Radiants on Roshar who have sworn the 4th ideal? I had assumed that Nin was up to the 5th ideal, but now I am re-thinking.

Syl also says to him something like ' you have to let other people save you sometimes'

On 28 February 2018 at 11:35 PM, Nvita11 said:

I always thought that the KR would receive a Ryshadium after their final ideal.

Nah, I don't think Ryshadium have anything to do with the ideals. They're their own independent horses. :P

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Regards Shallan, does anyone have a strong theory for what really broke/cracked Shallan ? Since we didnt see this in her flash back book ?

Regards Kaladin i still hes 4th ideal revolves around sacrifice, the greater good keeps being mentioned throughout the good, which kaladin always has an issue with, so i think those get combined and it becomes "i will sacrifice those i love if it is the right thing to do"

I base this on the scene in kholinar when the wall guard fight the parshendi, and kaladin is unable to act because has friends on both sides. 

Could be totally wrong but i think hes 4th ideal is so he can act in those situations.

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In response to a post a ways back in the thread. I think that the ability demonstrated by Dalinar  when he deflected Amarams blade is not something to be confused with a shardblade. When the Stormfather says he will be a knight with no shards I think he meant it. As a bondsmith spren and Tanavast's cognitive shadow he wont break his word like that.

The ability he manifested, I think, has something to do with touching the spiritual realm. It will be interesting to see if he can do it at will.

 

As for the rest I think all orders receive plate and blade at the same ideals, but I guess we will have to RAFO to find the truth. I think Shallan has plate now for sure though. Becausr of her frectured state she didnt even realize it because of the amount of lightweaving and exhaustion. 

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