Kav Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Apologies if this is old news to some, but I just wanted to bring this to people's attention as it seems to have flown under the radar. The following book personalization was recently posted to Arcanum: Spoiler DCD328 [Personalization Request] To Hoid, with a message that hints at his quest. Brandon Sanderson To make that which once was. DCD328 I ordered this from Brandon's store maybe 5 or 6 years ago. source While many people have speculated that Hoid's goal is the reforming of Adonalsium, this is the closest that I have seen Brandon coming to confirming this. He obviously doesn't come out and say it but I can't think of anything else it could be referring to, so for now its good enough for me! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Kav said: it seems to have flown under the radar. I think it feels like that because the general consensus is roughly "he's probably doing that, but I can't guarantee it, so I'll just wait for more proof." For instance, I remember reading this WoB before, and thought nothing of it. I saw it, went "alright, cool" and moved on. A lot of us have just gotten desensitized to topics like this given how many times new people post a thread posing this idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Pretty much what @The One Who Connects said. Another couple of points to bear in mind. Brandon is sneaky, really sneaky, he's also very fond of using exact words and allowing us to trick ourselves. When asked point-blank if reassembling Adonalsium is Hoid's goal, he'll say something like 'That's what the books seem to be indicating'.which is an entirely accurate statement but doesn't actually confirm that this is Hoid's goal. For all we know, Brandon has deliberately written Hoid up until now in a manner that makes it look like this is his goal when his actual endgame is something completely different. And even if that's the case, Brandon's statement will still be completely honest. And completely wrong, from a theorycrafting perspective. Hoid is from Yolen, a world with some interesting features that predate the Shattering. Take a look at some of these WoBs (and one quote from the man himself); they don't and can't confirm that the 'Hoid wants to recreate Adonalsium' theory is wrong but they do offer avenues to interpret the WoB you provided in a different light. Quote Herald (paraphrased) Asked for a dedication from a resident of Yolen. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Got "May two worlds become one to you" He stressed that it's worlds not realms!!! source Quote Brandon Sanderson In worldbuilding this, I realized that I missed a big opportunity in Dragonsteel Prime by not dealing with fainlife all that much. It was a powerful world element that got mostly ignored. By writing a book here, where I can slam a city in to the middle of the fain assault--before people learned really how to keep the alien landscape back--I think I'll be able to focus more on the setting. Quote A_Dunyain This is just a stab based on perceived hints, but is Yolen the most "Earth-like" planet in the Cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Scadrial is, actually. Sel isn't too far off either. Yolen has some strangeness to it. Two competing ecologies, and some strange geography. But I have wavered on how to convey all of this, so none of it is set in stone yet. source Quote Warbreaker Chapter 32 (discussing his storytelling method) “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn’t know who he was, Your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died. But that is unimportant.” One interpretation of the WoB you provided in light of the above is that Hoid's overarching goal has to do with either merging Yolen's competing ecologies in some way or restoring Yolen's ecology to the state it in was before fainlife appeeared, meaning some time before the beginning of Dragonsteel and thus well before the Shattering. This may not require that Adonalsium be put back together, just that he be Shattered in the first place for some reason. I've seen various ideas proposed, such as Adonalsium deliberately creating fainlife (and being killed to stop it from spreading) or being passively responsible in some way and unwilling or unable to prevent it and thus needing to be killed. Following this chain of thought, Hoid could have seen Adonalsium's death as necessary but isn't interested in reassembling him afterwards, just experimenting with various magic systems until he finds the right combination to solve the fain issue once and for all. Of course, given how little we know about Hoid (a fact unlikely to change significantly until Dragonsteel is written) it's also entirely possible his goal is something we can't possibly predict except by sheer luck, in the 'monkeys with typewriters eventually reproducing Shakespeare by random chance' sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 What if the 'gods' (2) like uncle andy created the cosmere together. The other one dies and from his/her/its creation (body) the fainlife was created. Uncle Andy is killed because of the imbalance of the two investitures creating corruption. Hoid wants to recreate the two Gods thereby making a balance. Just a drunken thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 @Thanatos Brandon has said that all Investiture in the cosmere comes from Adonalsium. Quote Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. We do know that Yolen had 'gods' but we don't know exactly what's meant by that and Brandon has stated that this is one of the things that he's still working on in his head so nothing we've seen in released snippets of unpublished works should be trusted. They may still be involved in the existence of fainlife but not as some sort of separate existence that could corrupt Investiture, because they'd still ultimately be associated with Adonalsium's Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Theres a WoB contradicting that which is something like. "Thats whats the people of the cosmere believe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Thanatos said: Theres a WoB contradicting that which is something like. "Thats whats the people of the cosmere believe." It was all from Adonalsium, and it's all now associated with a respective shard. Quote Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Are they aware of that Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That's part of the whole seeing into the infinite, being beyond even the power of a Shard. So, technically you could make the argument that Harmony could feel the sense of Preservation on every world in the cosmere, right? Because the building blocks of all life and creation are these things. Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Found a few WoB that leads to the ambiguity of uncle andy not being the only God and not creating the cosmere alone. Quote Questioner Was Adonalsium the one who created the cosmere universe as a whole? Brandon Sanderson That is widely assumed to be the case. . Quote Questioner In the universe that the cosmere takes place in, is Adonalsium god or is he a smaller entity? Brandon Sanderson That is a matter of some debate and I will not answer yes or no because I would rather not-- I would rather leave it to the characters' debate. . Quote Chaos You have once said, with regard to a question about Shards being the most powerful thing in the cosmere, that some would say that other "subtle forces" are being manifest. Are these subtle forces related to Adonalsium's opposition? Brandon Sanderson There is belief in a God who is not one of the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 @Thanatos All of those WoBs have implications towards the God Beyond, which is the Cosmere equivalent of "God" both in its nature, and in the fact that Brandon has said it will not be addressed in the books ever, as he wants to leave the idea if a real and true "God" and the Beyond itself up to the readers to decide, so as not to impose his own beliefs on anyone. They say nothing about investiture. Which as has been noted in the WoB above, is all attributed to Adonalsium. As to the God Beyond issue... Quote JWMeep A question about Goradel. His end was very tragic, and was one of the things that had me in tears. The thing that really twisted the knife into me, is that he died that horrible death thinking that he had failed. When everything he tried to survive failed, his final act was to try to prevent the message into falling into Ruin's hands, but even that was futile. With those who seem to be active in the great beyond, did Goradel ever find out about what his actions helped to bring about? Was he ever thanked for his actions? Brandon Sanderson Well... I don't want to speak too much about the great beyond in the books, as in my opinion that level of cosmology is influenced by your own beliefs in the hereafter and in deity. Beyond that, I would rather not speak of what happens to the souls beyond the three Realms, as even Sazed doesn't know that. Perhaps this will help, however. Like most of the leaders of soldiers in this series (Demoux, Wells, and Conrad included,) Goradel is based on and looks like one of my friends. In this case, it's Richard Gordon. He's read the book and cheered for his namesake's sacrifice and eventual victory. So the REAL Goradel knows. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 What about the first quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Thanatos said: What about the first quote? What about it? The God Beyond could have developed the universe. Adonalsium may have made it from what started as only the spiritual realm as its awareness developed, or it may have developed exactly as ours did only with three realms instead of one, and Adonalsium developed sapience or gained a Vessel later. That does not contradict the recent WoB I posted above that says that all investiture was a part of Adonalsium. It makes no reference to Investiture, only that most people believe that Adonalsium created the Cosmere, which falls perfectly in line with Brandon's saying he wants to leave the idea of true divinity up to the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC12 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Forgive my ignorance, but what is fainlife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, AC12 said: Forgive my ignorance, but what is fainlife? Spoilery stuff. Read the Liar of Partinel chapters(1-6) that are available to find out more, but keep in mind its non canon and subject to change...... I just looked for them and they appear to have been moved. I'm not sure how much else I can say though. To address the original topic, everything points towards Hoid trying to fix Adonalisium, but because of that we all assume Brandon is going to throw a curve ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, AC12 said: Forgive my ignorance, but what is fainlife? Don't worry if you've never seen the term before, it's not something that we know (much) about from the books themselves. It's basically a second ecology that emerged on Yolen some time prior to the events of Dragonsteel and which does not play nicely with what was already there. Most of what we know about it comes from the non-canonical chapters from The Liar of Partinel which Brandon released years ago and as a result, all of the specific details are subject to change. Brandon wasn't satisfied with the book and has mentioned that it's going to be heavily revised before it's published. But the one reference made to fainlife in published materials (Khriss name-drops it in Arcanum Unbounded) confirms that the basic idea is more or less unchanged. See the WoB I posted earlier about Yolen having 'two competing ecologies' for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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