Focus

[Leyrann]

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A focus is a specific magic-related term in the Cosmere, it is the method by which Investiture can be formed into magical effects. Magic systems and magical engineering use these focuses to filter Investiture into a magical effect. [source]

Above quote (taken from Coppermind) of course states a well-known thing, but I cannot remember any real discussion regarding what a focus actually is, hence why I'm making this thread (and because I think I'll need it for Part III of my Fundamental Surges theory).

As we know, Investiture comes from the Spiritual Realm (I'd cite a source but it's such common knowledge all I can find is questions that implicitly assume it). When it is used, however, it typically affects the Physical or Cognitive Realm; in fact, the Spiritual Realm itself is barely mentioned or referenced in the books so far. So it has to travel from the Spiritual Realm to the Cognitive or Physical Realm somehow, and this is done through the focus.

As a short recap, the different focuses are metals for Scadrial, commands for Nalthis, spren for Roshar and shapes for Sel.

Of course, that is all common knowledge, but I have not seen any detailed theories on what is actually different for these things on their respective planets, compared to elsewhere. And I think the vital difference is that, though everything does exist in all three Realms, the parts of things are not always connected through these Realms. Where a person has a Cognitive Self that lets their Physical Self think, and a Spiritual Self that is the perfect version of their Physical Self, something like a rock (not on Scadrial) has a Physical Self - the rock - a Cognitive Self - the degree of consciousness it is given by humans, like a bead in Shadesmar ("I am a rock") - and a Spiritual Self - rock as it should be.

As I argued in my theory on the Surges, I believe that this connection that a living person has - a connection that is broken when they die - is the fundamental force that, when Surgebinders use it, is called Progression or (Re)growth. I think that a Focus is similar to this connection, and also uses Progression to form a bond between the Spiritual, Cognitive and Physical Realm. This connection is then what allows someone to draw Investiture through the Focus to power whatever magic they are using.

So, do Scadrian metals (and other focuses) live? Technically, yes they do. However, if there is little relationship to the Transformation or even Illumination Surge, then "life" will mostly be a technical description, much like a virus, where they mostly just happen to be included in the definition of life by accident.

And why can people then not be used to draw Investiture through? This is mostly due to differences in the connection that Progression makes. I think that just Progression does not allow one to draw Investiture, and rather a degree of Transportation is needed to add to the link; this Transportation is not present in people, but is specifically added to certain things in order to allow for them to function as a Focus.

*waits for RShara and Calderis to rip the whole theory apart*  (other people are also welcome though )

 

[Fezzik]

1 metals on Scadrial are no different than metals elsewhere

2 I thought bonds were the focus on Roshar

Edited February 20, 2018 by John203

[Wandering Investor]

I was under the interpretation that Investiture comes from all three realms. Everything at its most basic level is investiture. Its just that channeling investiture, aka magic, tends to be powered by a Shard, and their power resides mostly in the spiritual realm. 

One important note on a focus is that it is an in-world attempt at understanding how magic works, so it may not be a perfect term, and we could potentially see it used in different ways. Anyways, a focus is the instructional mechanism for what the magic is suppose to do. Metals on Scadrial for instance, their chemical makeup acts as a filter/guide on what power is suppose to be used. Similar to how the shapes Elantrians draw act as a filter/guide/instructions for what the Dor is suppose to do. Same thing with commands on Nalthis. Traits within the spiritweb are what allow someone to tap into a magic system, not the focus. The focus just helps shape what the power will do.

The problem is that the term focus doesn't always translate well into all magic systems. Surgebinding for instance. Which spren you bond determines your surges, hence the spren being considered the focus. But each KR has at least two powers to use, and that's controlled mentally, so there isn't really a focus for that particular part of the magic system. Unless the spren is actively involved in using and controlling the powers. But when it comes to the fabrials, the type of gem used is important, so the focus is the gem, specifically its color.

Which leads into another interesting discussion on foci, how are they decided upon. So far we've seen only one type of focus used in each subastral, including Scadrial where multiple magic systems exist from multiple shards. But not so for Roshar. In Roshar we have the gemstones and the spren that both act as focus, and potentially another focus for voidbinding. 

[The One Who Connects]

4 hours ago, Leyrann said:

spren for Roshar

As mentioned by John203, unless something was revealed in Oathbringer, this one is still under debate afaik. But it's not really the point of your theory, so I'll leave it at that.

28 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Everything at its most basic level is investiture.

Kinda, but not..? I'd consider Matter, Energy, and Investiture as distinct things. You can convert from one to the other, but I'd call them separate things. Semantics, I know, but you know how we are on here.

You do make a very nice point about the Metal/Form focus similarities. They're pretty much exactly the same thing, it's just that the pattern for metals are on the atomic/molecular level, while Aons are visible to the human eye(I think we've asked about using the molecular pattern for bronze as a "Soothing Aon" before too). Too bad we can't make that same comparison to the other magic systems...

1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said:

In Roshar we have the gemstones and the spren that both act as focus, and potentially another focus for voidbinding. 

And then there's Soulcasting. Jasnah/Shallan are KR, so that should fall under the Spren/Bond debate, but they are also limited by what gemstone they get their Stormlight from, which would be a point in the "color" category like Fabrials. Soulcasting Fabrials don't have Spren in them(near as I can tell), which would be a point against both Spren and Bonds, but the gemstone type restriction doesn't apply to most of the KR.. Roshar is just weird in general.

Nalthis Sidenote: Per Brandon, Commands are the focus. But we know that commands are just words, and they need a mental visualization too in order for the magic to have any affect. Had Brandon not told us, we'd probably be assuming the Visualization were the focus(or just be confused, always an option)
Could something similar be happening here, where we're seeing those other aspects, and underplaying something crucial?

5 hours ago, Leyrann said:

And why can people then not be used to draw Investiture through?

Have you met the Dakhor? We've got two examples of it in Elantris. Hrathen recounts when Dilaf used an Acolyte's life-force to power a teleportation. And Dilaf internally mentions having a power to resist attacks from the Dor that required the deaths of 50 men to achieve. Per Brandon, granting that power required a certain amount of investiture, and it stand to reason the teleportation did too. If not drawn from/through the people, where else would it have come from?

---

Your theory as it stands in intriguing, I felt a slight sense of disagreement at times, but I'm not certain with which aspects yet. Not sure if I have any real comment on it beyond what I've already said.

[RShara]

I think the focus on Nalthis is actually color, rather than command.  If we take the comparison to metal, the color is what's used up, and works as a key, of sorts, to unlock the investiture.

On Roshar, I think we have the focus and the investiture as the stormlight.  It's used up, but is the actual investiture at the same time.

Overall, I'm uncomfortable discussing focuses because we don't know if that's really a good term for it, or if that's even in the ballpark.  Fuel could work just as well as a description.  Feel free to theorize in peace, I'm just here to point out discrepancies

[Leyrann]

2 hours ago, John203 said:

1 metals on Scadrial are no different than metals elsewhere

2 I thought bonds were the focus on Roshar

I will admit I copied the focuses straight from the Coppermind, but I thought the spren being the focus fit well. As The One Who Connects said, however, that's not the focus of this theory.

As for the metals, they aren't visibly different, nor do they have different properties. Realmatically, however, I think they are actually different, or maybe it is something that is caused by being around Scadrial, with location playing a role in what creates the focus. That's just throwing out random ideas though.

2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

I was under the interpretation that Investiture comes from all three realms. Everything at its most basic level is investiture. Its just that channeling investiture, aka magic, tends to be powered by a Shard, and their power resides mostly in the spiritual realm. 

In its core, everything is Investiture, just like in its core, everything in our universe is energy. That doesn't mean we can just randomly vaporize atoms to get energy from them, however, and just like that, it is only possible to use the Investiture that comes from the Spiritual Realm - though high-tech things might change that, in which case we'll probably see it in MB4 and maybe Dragonsteel.

2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

One important note on a focus is that it is an in-world attempt at understanding how magic works, so it may not be a perfect term, and we could potentially see it used in different ways. Anyways, a focus is the instructional mechanism for what the magic is suppose to do. Metals on Scadrial for instance, their chemical makeup acts as a filter/guide on what power is suppose to be used. Similar to how the shapes Elantrians draw act as a filter/guide/instructions for what the Dor is suppose to do. Same thing with commands on Nalthis. Traits within the spiritweb are what allow someone to tap into a magic system, not the focus. The focus just helps shape what the power will do.

The problem is that the term focus doesn't always translate well into all magic systems. Surgebinding for instance. Which spren you bond determines your surges, hence the spren being considered the focus. But each KR has at least two powers to use, and that's controlled mentally, so there isn't really a focus for that particular part of the magic system. Unless the spren is actively involved in using and controlling the powers. But when it comes to the fabrials, the type of gem used is important, so the focus is the gem, specifically its color.

I'm not sure if they're actually in-world only, but we do need some way to transfer the Investiture out of the Spiritual Realm. It's not necessarily the only thing the focus does though - I could indeed very much see it play a role in limiting what can be done with the magic.

In fact I believe that very thing is what made Surgebinding as humans did it on Ashyn different from how they do it on Roshar. On Ashyn, they direcly accessed the Surges somehow - maybe through some Cosmere thing that was known on Yolen, remained known among the people of Ashyn, but got lost after the Shattering and Ashyn's destruction respectively, to be rediscovered in the second half of the Stormlight Archive or Mistborn Era 4 - and when they got to Roshar, Honor created the more limited form of the Surges, where they have to be accessed through spren - or maybe something related to Stormlight, as RShara mentioned regarding fabrials - which limited how much people could do with the Surges.

(Actually, the "Cosmere thing that was known on Yolen" might just be the knowledge of how to access Investiture through the Progression from yourself, rather than needing an external focus, thereby giving you what is basically a limitless form of the Surges as we see them on Roshar)

2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

Which leads into another interesting discussion on foci, how are they decided upon. So far we've seen only one type of focus used in each subastral, including Scadrial where multiple magic systems exist from multiple shards. But not so for Roshar. In Roshar we have the gemstones and the spren that both act as focus, and potentially another focus for voidbinding. 

I would argue that Scadrial, though it has three magic systems, has those systems all based on the same template of the sixteen metals, explaining why the focus would be the same. Roshar, on the other hand, has the gemstones that act as focus, created by Adonalsium, and the spren that act as focus, created by Honor and Cultivation.

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

And then there's Soulcasting. Jasnah/Shallan are KR, so that should fall under the Spren/Bond debate, but they are also limited by what gemstone they get their Stormlight from, which would be a point in the "color" category like Fabrials. Soulcasting Fabrials don't have Spren in them(near as I can tell), which would be a point against both Spren and Bonds, but the gemstone type restriction doesn't apply to most of the KR.. Roshar is just weird in general.

Yeah, I think Roshar is just really complex.

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Have you met the Dakhor? We've got two examples of it in Elantris. Hrathen recounts when Dilaf used an Acolyte's life-force to power a teleportation. And Dilaf internally mentions having a power to resist attacks from the Dor that required the deaths of 50 men to achieve. Per Brandon, granting that power required a certain amount of investiture, and it stand to reason the teleportation did too. If not drawn from/through the people, where else would it have come from?

Then either that's the first step to what I mentioned above of discovering how to use your own Progression, or it's a specific focus for some of the magic on Sel.

36 minutes ago, RShara said:

On Roshar, I think we have the focus and the investiture as the stormlight.  It's used up, but is the actual investiture at the same time.

Definitely. I don't think anything apart from a hard WoB is going to convince me Stormlight isn't Investiture, as in actual Investiture, but in the Physical Realm. I don't think it's the focus though. Thinking about it, maybe spren, bonds and color are all not the focus, but the highstorm is the focus, which transports Investiture to the Physical Realm. After that, something (a spren bond, a fabrial, etc) is required to use the Investiture, but it no longer needs a focus because it's already been carried to the Physical Realm.

39 minutes ago, RShara said:

Overall, I'm uncomfortable discussing focuses because we don't know if that's really a good term for it, or if that's even in the ballpark.  Fuel could work just as well as a description.  Feel free to theorize in peace, I'm just here to point out discrepancies

That's an important reason for me to theorize about it. For our knowledge of it, we're not going to get any more without theorizing - and potentially being very wrong - and for the name, well, best to just not get too attached to it and try to find out what it really is independent of what we call it. Just like Intent or Fortune.

[The One Who Connects]

43 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

As for the metals, they aren't visibly different, nor do they have different properties. Realmatically, however, I think they are actually different, or maybe it is something that is caused by being around Scadrial, with location playing a role in what creates the focus.

The Metallic Arts will work anywhere in the Cosmere, with metal from anywhere in the Cosmere. The first world to make synthetic gemstones will make a fortune on Roshar for this exact reason.

43 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Roshar, on the other hand, has the gemstones that act as focus, created by Adonalsium, and the Spren that act as focus, created by Honor and Cultivation.

And the Singers use Spren for their transformations, created by Adonalsium. Like you said, it's complex.

43 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

or it's a specific focus for some of the magic on Sel.

It's literally all the same magic system in Brandon's eyes. There's no reason for the focus to differ within subsets of a magic system.

All of the magic on Sel is Form-based, and always has been. The innate investiture is more than likely just a power source.

1 hour ago, RShara said:

I think the focus on Nalthis is actually color, rather than command.

Brandon, through Chaos, Circa 2011.

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Some backstory: In my own discussion with Brandon (from 2009, I believe), he said that Aons are the focuses for AonDor, metal is the focus for the Metallic Arts. Those are sort of no-brainers. But then he surprised me, and said that the Commands are the focus in Warbreaker. At the time, I had guessed color, so that revelation blindsided me.

Edited February 20, 2018 by The One Who Connects

[RShara]

7 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Brandon, through Chaos, Circa 2011.

Whoa.

[Calderis]

I am also of the belief that the focus on Taldain is water. 

Water forces the lichen to give up its investiture, and sand mastery consumes the water in a user's body. I believe it is the "key" 

It's an older post of mine, but here's my rushed thoughts on Foci.