[OB] Scriptures and the cosmere

[The Gecko]

Warning now, this is for all the cosmere, including Oathbringer.

While reading in the bible I came across Isaiah 10:3-4 and it distinctly reminded me of the stormlight archive. Here it is:

           3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
            4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

There are several things in here that tie nicely to Stormlight: the desolation, bowing down beneath prisoners (Parshendi), falling under the slain (the fused), His anger (Odium), things like that.

I was wondering if anybody knew of any other scripture stories or verses from any religion or holy books that distinctly reminds you of something in the cosmere. Or vice versa, where something in the Cosmere reminds you of scripture.

Any thoughts?

Edited February 20, 2018 by The Gecko

[Weltall]

There's lots to Mormonism, which isn't terribly surprising as Brandon is LDS so it's obviously a major influence. He's mentioned that he doesn't generally do it consciously but it obviously comes out in some of his concepts. There's also some specific examples where he's mentioned he did intentionally draw upon it, like having The Way of Kings (the book) being inspired by King Benjamin's speech from Mosiah. The importance of writing engraved in metal in Mistborn Era 1 is probably an unconscious influence from Mormonism as well.

He's also drawn a lot from Korea/China/Japan, inspired by his time there as an LDS missionary and then subsequent trips but those don't generally have specific passages in a book you could point to (a lot has to do with writing systems and their influence on Selish magic, for example). He has mentioned Sun Tzu as one direct inspiration, so I suppose you could find a specific quotes from there if you sat down with a copy. For example, during WoK Dalinar echoes The Art of War when he decries the strains that the prolonged campaign on the Shattered Plains is putting on Alethkar economically and politically.

There's a recent topic where people have discussed the subject and there's probably more you could find with a search.

 

[Ammanas]

Looks like Weltall already beat me to linking the thread I was thinking of.

But to add to that I think how most Mormons understand the idea of "intelligences" are basically spren. That we are basically a intelligence that Heavenly Father created into a spirit body, that eventually got born into a mortal physical body. But everything has a intelligence be it a blade of grass to animals. This isn't unique to mormonism; in fact I was just watching a show today where a Mongolian religious figure was explaining how everything has a spirit even what most would consider inanimate objects.

I also think of Szeth's desire to remain obediant to his stone to be similar to Mormon beliefs because if he doesn't remain loyal to it he would basically cease to exist in the afterlife (the worst possible punishment). Compared to the torment he would receive by being truthless but he would still retain his identity. Most Mormons understand that the punishment of outer darkness is to cast out as a raw, stripped, naked intelligence to the place we were originally gathered from.

Throughout my statements I say, "most mormons" but it is a rarely discussed topic. Joseph Smith died before he could really expand on a lot of his ideas like this, but Brigham Young, Pratt and other early Church leaders seem to put forth these interpretations. I can't think of the specefic source of the top of my head, but they must be in The Journal of Discourses. I remember I originally heard it in a lecture or book by Cleon Skousen who collected these early teachings.

[recneps]

20 hours ago, Ammanas said:

But to add to that I think how most Mormons understand the idea of "intelligences" are basically spren. That we are basically a intelligence that Heavenly Father created into a spirit body, that eventually got born into a mortal physical body. But everything has a intelligence be it a blade of grass to animals. This isn't unique to mormonism; in fact I was just watching a show today where a Mongolian religious figure was explaining how everything has a spirit even what most would consider inanimate objects.

The assignment of spirits to everything is called animism, in general.. And Mormonism doesn't truly have it for things such as blades of grass and animals. Only for Humans, who are believed to have spirits which were created by Heavenly Father and his unnamed Wife in the aeons before the world was made.

[Ammanas]

2 hours ago, recneps said:

The assignment of spirits to everything is called animism, in general.. And Mormonism doesn't truly have it for things such as blades of grass and animals. Only for Humans, who are believed to have spirits which were created by Heavenly Father and his unnamed Wife in the aeons before the world was made.

Everything has a "intelligence" at least that is what most of the early church taught and believed. There hasn't been any revelation that said that is wrong. I stand by my statement, but don't have the energy or desire to argue.

Here are a few quotes:

Recent LDS General Authorites have said that our “intelligence was clothed in spirit bodies.” Brigham Young is quoted as saying, “He created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process ” (JoD 11:122-123). Joseph Smith “But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house tops that God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all” (Follett). 

"Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it." -The King Follett Sermon, Joseph Smith Jr.

 

There is an eternity of matter, and it is all acted upon and filled with a portion of divinity.[God's organized intelligences,] Matter is to exist; it cannot be annihilated. Eternity is without bounds and is filled with matter; and there is no such thing as empty space. And matter is capacitated to receive intelligence....matter can be organized and brought forth into intelligence, and to possess more intelligence..and to continue to increase in intelligence.learn those principles that organized matter [can be made] into animals, vegetables, and into intelligent beings capacitated to receive intelligence." [Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 2-3]

"It was clearly comprehended by the Prophet (Joseph Smith) and his associates that intelligence is the vivifying force of all creation-animate or inanimate-the rock and tree and beast and man, have ascending degrees of intelligence."(John A. Widtsoe, Joseph Smith, Seeker After Truth, Deseret News Press, pp. 150-151)

And as Brigham Young Said:

"There is life [or intelligence] in all matter throughout the vast extent of all the eternities; it is in the rock, the sand, in water, air, the gasses, and in short, in every description and organization of matter, whether it be solid, liquid, or gaseous, particle operating with particle." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 277)
 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Ammanas

[The Gecko]

So, no offense guys, this is all very interesting, but all I wanted was to see how many verses or phrases from any holy books from any religion that in any way mirror something in the cosmere. I am almost certain that he didn't get inspiration for Stormlight in those 2 Isaiah verses. I am not looking for sources of his inspiration, merely phrases or stories that mirror another

Edited February 22, 2018 by The Gecko

[Ammanas]

I guess I got a little sidetracked with what I thought was a more interesting topic; but your thread your rules.

I feel like most verses could be twisted to mean just about anything, but I will play along and contribute the verse from Joel 2:28 which could apply to The Stormfather and him sending visions to Dalinar especially. Here it is from the ESV Bible:

"And it shall come to pass afterward,

that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;

your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

your old men shall dream dreams,

and your young men shall see visions