Ideas for Official Release

[Auger]

When (or if) Aether of Night officially gets rewritten and released - what parts do you think will be changed and why?

Also - are they any parts of the story that you yourself would like to see changed?

- Auger (the apparently dyslexic allomancer who can't spell their own misting name)

[Weltall]

Yay, more Aether discussion! xD

Here's a topic where we've talked about how we'd go about 'fixing' the book which should provide some good reading.

Without recapping my thoughts there too much, I expect some combination of the following to happen, with the working assumption that Brandon retains both halves of the plot (the 'mistaken identity/wedding' plot and the 'Zombie Forgotten Apocalypse' plot) to some extent.

- The backstory involving the Former, Decay and the Fell Twins gets massively revised. My current idea involves Preservation and Ruin playing a backstory role but not an active one and they essentially take Decay's role in imprisoning the Twins. The Twins were the children of a new Shard that originally Invested the world and each have half of that Shard's power. See the linked topic for all the details.

- The ending omits the hook for a sequel that's never going to happen and the Twins stay dead. I haven't decided in my head yet what happens to the power of the Shard.

- Aethers get much more explanation since Brandon didn't fully have the mechanics of the Cosmere set out when the original story was written (he's mentioned that it was during the writing of Mistborn that a lot of things started getting solidified in his mind) which includes a more prominent role for the Ferrous bonds. I'm assuming the four types (plus the two 'God Aethers') remain largely unchanged and the last State of the Sanderson certainly suggests this will be the case.

- The number of bridal candidates gets reduced by a sudden attack of the plot early on, allowing only those who are significant characters to remain, keeping this plotline from bogging down with extraneous characters. This would be D'Naa, Nahan, Alean and Tae (see the other topic for why I include her).

- The 'Forgotten come back after being defeated the first time' plot is dropped entirely as a narrative cheat. Instead Laene is prompted by the Patriarch to stage a coup at the end which drives the cast out of the capital, puts them in the position of looking elsewhere for allies and getting the backstory infodump currently found in the trip to the Verdant source. This also sets up Laene for comeuppance which he doesn't really get in the existing story. Alean is removed from the bridal plot either by direct involvement in the coup or by association, thus removing the extremely uncomfortable way she was written out in the draft.

- The Shentis get developed earlier on rather than serving as something of an afterthought and the Gol and Viglix are removed completely as they don't really contribute anything.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Weltall

[+Oltux72]

On 2/16/2018 at 0:03 AM, Weltall said:

Yay, more Aether discussion! xD

Here's a topic where we've talked about how we'd go about 'fixing' the book which should provide some good reading.

- The backstory involving the Former, Decay and the Fell Twins gets massively revised. My current idea involves Preservation and Ruin playing a backstory role but not an active one and they essentially take Decay's role in imprisoning the Twins. The Twins were the children of a new Shard that originally Invested the world and each have half of that Shard's power. See the linked topic for all the details.

Is it needed at all? If you must keep it, how about Devotion and Dominion settling on the workd if the aethers first and fleeing from Odium?

On 2/16/2018 at 0:03 AM, Weltall said:

- Aethers get much more explanation since Brandon didn't fully have the mechanics of the Cosmere set out when the original story was written (he's mentioned that it was during the writing of Mistborn that a lot of things started getting solidified in his mind) which includes a more prominent role for the Ferrous bonds. I'm assuming the four types (plus the two 'God Aethers') remain largely unchanged and the last State of the Sanderson certainly suggests this will be the case.

The aethers cannot be fully explained or the plot with multiple aethers being possible and this being kept from the general population will stop making sense.

On 2/16/2018 at 0:03 AM, Weltall said:

- The 'Forgotten come back after being defeated the first time' plot is dropped entirely as a narrative cheat. Instead Laene is prompted by the Patriarch to stage a coup at the end which drives the cast out of the capital, puts them in the position of looking elsewhere for allies and getting the backstory infodump currently found in the trip to the Verdant source. This also sets up Laene for comeuppance which he doesn't really get in the existing story. Alean is removed from the bridal plot either by direct involvement in the coup or by association, thus removing the extremely uncomfortable way she was written out in the draft.

Yes, this really makes no sense. If you really need the air of despair, introduce the second army of shadows right away (Bestarin and Amberite advancing in two groups?) and make the defeat of the first army a pyrrhic victory.
The plot of the succession can work without the element of mistaken identity. The conflict can come from the heir leaving the priesthood which is not suppposed to happen, because the third son was supposed to become a priest, not the second son..

[Weltall]

19 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Is it needed at all? If you must keep it, how about Devotion and Dominion settling on the workd if the aethers first and fleeing from Odium?

My thinking is that it would be a fun meta-reference to how Aether contributed a lot to what became the published Mistborn Era 1 (and there's clearly something we still don't know about Preservation and Ruin given Ati's mention of Vax and Khriss' comments about it having a different method of Initiation) but I'd agree that aside from that mystery which may be something completely unrelated, it's not strictly necessary to tie Aether to any of the previously-seen Shards.

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The aethers cannot be fully explained or the plot with multiple aethers being possible and this being kept from the general population will stop making sense.

I mean explaining in Realmatic terms, how they work vis a vis the powers and especially the Ferrous bonds, which seems like it would be a very Spiritual magic. Actually, getting into the Realmatics would help clarify the conflict between what people in-universe believe about the Aedin and the ability to bond aethers and the reality that anyone can bond by giving us details on how Initiation works and why. The fact that it's kept from the general population doesn't really need further explanation: The people who already have bonds enjoy the prestige and would prefer to remain special rather than see the powers spread out and as the Patriarch says, the system has worked and kept order in the Imperium for centuries. Most Aedin themselves don't know the truth and believe the story that only certain family lines can form bonds; so far as we know it's only the Vo-Dari and the reigning Emperor who are in on the secret.

Would you mind clarifying your thoughts, because I'm really not sure how providing more explanation on this process would result in things making less sense?

[+Oltux72]

4 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Would you mind clarifying your thoughts, because I'm really not sure how providing more explanation on this process would result in things making less sense?

The system of the aethers right now has some issues

• The peoples outside the Empire have a large incentive to obtain aethers. Why does it take so long?
• They marry outside their lineages. Now suppose an Amberite man marries a woman of another lineage. Her children happen not to be his children, if you know what I mean. Yet they bond Amberite without problems. You think nobody will notice?
• Nobody with Amberite or Bestarin will ever be picked by Vo-Dari. Nobody notices. Over decades?

I don't really see how explanations in terms of Realmatics would help. The people of that world do not have such knowledge. Nor are they that unique. If Rosharans can grow crystals, aether can let you grow metal.

 

[Weltall]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The peoples outside the Empire have a large incentive to obtain aethers. Why does it take so long?

Because there's only one way to get access to the magic and that's a bud from someone who already has an aether. Which is why D'Naa had to literally steal a chunk of Amberite from Raeth's palm.

Well, there's also going directly to the source (an idea that could easily be done away with in a rewrite, since its narrative purpose can be served in other ways) but we have no idea where three of them are and only the Shentis know about the Verdant source. Anyhow, point being that while aethers are ultimately a very easy system to be Initiated into, the material required to actually get access to the magic is heavily controlled so the various groups outside the Imperium (and the ones within it who'd like aethers) didn't have a plausible means of getting at any buds until just recently. And the Shentis are trying to avoid drawing attention to themselves as much as possible so they're not going to start giving the secret out to everyone, lest it come back to haunt them.

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They marry outside their lineages. Now suppose an Amberite man marries a woman of another lineage. Her children happen not to be his children, if you know what I mean. Yet they bond Amberite without problems. You think nobody will notice?

If the children were known to be illegitimate I suspect they wouldn't get aethers in the first place. If they weren't known, I rather doubt the woman is going to say anything. If she thinks about it at all, it's probably along the lines of 'Whew, I don't have to come up with any explanations'. If it's found out later after they did get bonds, I suspect that it would be hushed up, quite possibly encouraged by the Dari (y'know, the people who are deliberately obscuring the  truth for reasons of their own) and not become wider knowledge. There's historical precedent for this sort of thing, since for example in the Middle Ages, adultery might have been a very serious criminal and religious offense but the social stigma attaching to the husband was such that they wouldn't always admit to it. With their emphasis on their ancestors, I doubt the Aedins are any less strict so there would probably be a lot of social pressure to keep mum.

In other words, even if someone was put in a position where they might wonder about why their (not) children could bond the same aether as them, it's not likely they'd start publicly questioning things. Also, the Aedin enjoy a nice position at the top of the pecking order and they're not going to want to rock the boat even if some of them do find out. And non-Aedin are never going to find out about this sort of thing, until the exceptional circumstances that gave D'Naa and others outside the Aedins a chance to bond Verdant.

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Nobody with Amberite or Bestarin will ever be picked by Vo-Dari. Nobody notices. Over decades?

There aren't all that many Dari and most of the details of the religion are kept secret from the general public. There also aren't that many Vo-Dari chosen and they probably deliberately don't keep written records of this sort of thing, so it's harder to notice the pattern. Given what the Dari were perfectly ready to do, they probably wouldn't shy away from murdering anyone who looks like they're getting suspicious either.

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I don't really see how explanations in terms of Realmatics would help. The people of that world do not have such knowledge. Nor are they that unique. If Rosharans can grow crystals, aether can let you grow metal.

The people might not have such knowledge but Khriss would and we'd be getting an Ars Arcanum so we'd get the juicy details that way. Plus, Brandon would presumbly delve into more specifics so even if the in-universe characters don't understand what they're describing we'd get a better understanding just from observing. Especially when it comes to the massive changes that Ferrous bonds create, which in the case of the heat/light ones at least are basically Perpetual Motion Machines that output energy in the Physical with no apparent input. That's gonna be worth a couple of pages by itself.

And there is sometthing unique/important about aethers specifically. Peter has said that there's a reason that Brandon kept Aether of Night's magic system canonical even before he confirmed that he was going to rewrite the book (and after he'd decided his attempt at repurposing the magic for Liar of Partinel was a non-starter) we just haven't figured out what that reason is yet.

[+Oltux72]

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Because there's only one way to get access to the magic and that's a bud from someone who already has an aether. Which is why D'Naa had to literally steal a chunk of Amberite from Raeth's palm.

That still leaves good old bribery and taking them from prisoners of war. I am afraid aethers would work much better a small rewrite to make them harder to transfer.

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

In other words, even if someone was put in a position where they might wonder about why their (not) children could bond the same aether as them, it's not likely they'd start publicly questioning things. Also, the Aedin enjoy a nice position at the top of the pecking order and they're not going to want to rock the boat even if some of them do find out. And non-Aedin are never going to find out about this sort of thing, until the exceptional circumstances that gave D'Naa and others outside the Aedins a chance to bond Verdant.

That is a good explanation in case of native wives. It fails with foreigners though. They would have all incentive to phone home.

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

There aren't all that many Dari and most of the details of the religion are kept secret from the general public. There also aren't that many Vo-Dari chosen and they probably deliberately don't keep written records of this sort of thing, so it's harder to notice the pattern. Given what the Dari were perfectly ready to do, they probably wouldn't shy away from murdering anyone who looks like they're getting suspicious either.

Nobody of Amberite at all? They are important houses.

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

The people might not have such knowledge but Khriss would and we'd be getting an Ars Arcanum so we'd get the juicy details that way. Plus, Brandon would presumbly delve into more specifics so even if the in-universe characters don't understand what they're describing we'd get a better understanding just from observing. Especially when it comes to the massive changes that Ferrous bonds create, which in the case of the heat/light ones at least are basically Perpetual Motion Machines that output energy in the Physical with no apparent input. That's gonna be worth a couple of pages by itself.

No different from awakened objects except for the light and heat. And with enough Breaths awakened objects can create magic effects. Or the Returned.

Aethers are not that different. They are physical objects but other than that, how are they different from spren or aviars? The Dari show something entirely new and the Bestarin show a novel concept.

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

And there is sometthing unique/important about aethers specifically. Peter has said that there's a reason that Brandon kept Aether of Night's magic system canonical even before he confirmed that he was going to rewrite the book (and after he'd decided his attempt at repurposing the magic for Liar of Partinel was a non-starter) we just haven't figured out what that reason is yet.

From a tactical viewpoint, if you wanted to create a whole planet of invested people out of ordinary people, you'd have to go for aethers (or Ashyn magics). And if you wanted a base in  Shadesmar, you could live of Verdant soup and cross it on Corpates. And Dark Amberite versus Shard plate and blades is a match I want to see.