Allomancers don't actually push on metals

[Lord Bookwyrm]

I've been thinking that the way that allomancers push on metals in mistborn doesn't actually seem like pushing. You can't really push on a specific area, you have to affect the object as a whole. What really got me thinking was that the lighter object will be pushed back farther. This doesn't seem like pushing to me, it seems more like magnetism or gravity. We've already seen that most investiture forms are actually quite similar in what they do, the ones in SA and Mistborn are pretty similar, or at least more so than the ones on Nalthis. Anyway, in SA, there is a surge called Gravitation. GRAVITATION. If that wasn't a huge clue I don't know what was. In the Ars Arcanum, Gravitation is described as the 'Surge of Gravity'. What this means is that Investiture can affect Gravity. What especially caught my attention was that Gravitation can make objects fall towards or away from you. This is surprisingly similar to the pushing and pulling of metals in Mistborn, and since the magic systems are similar, they most probably are the same thing, meaning that:

Allomancers don't actually pull/push on metals. Instead, they gravitationally attract or repel the metals

In case you weren't convinced, the blue lines in Mistborn stem from your CENTRE OF GRAVITY and gravity affects you at your CENTRE OF GRAVITY.

[RShara]

Kelsier actually pushes on the ends of some bars during his Inquisitor fight in TFE.  And the blue lines don't actually stem from your center of gravity   They come out of the chest, and the center of gravity is down around the navel.  Now, this might be because Brandon doesn't realize where the center of gravity is......

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Allomancers don't actually pull/push on metals. Instead, they gravitationally attract or repel the metals

To compare the two, imagine a slow pulse of those effects:

Gravity works applying a constant acceleration to the object regardless of the object's mass...This means the object start to move to an increased speed as long as the gravity keep going (until he reach Final Velocity but it's not something meaningful here). Imagine it like an object on perfectly plain ice weakly pushed with a finger by someone near

A Push/Pull instead applies directly a force to the (metallic) object. the object (or you) will still start to move but for completelly different mechanics, it starts directly at his full speed allowed by the Push/Pull. Imagine it as a ball hitted by a bat.

The two of them could act in similar ways with some assumptions, like assuming the Pull generates an incredible amount of G Force to allow bullet to gain so fast that extreme speed, but if that is the case the bullet will keep going faster to an extreme velocity in a couple of seconds.

Lastly, Gravity is never repulsive

TLTR: Gravity can't be the source of the Steel/Iron Allomancy because those magics can't be profiled with the effect of a G force.

[Scion of the Mists]

I agree that there are a lot of similarities between gravitation/electro-magnetism and steelpushing (less so for pulling).  Basically any of the inverse square forces, which I assume were the basis for pushing/pulling.  

 

10 hours ago, Lord Bookworm said:

In case you weren't convinced, the blue lines in Mistborn stem from your CENTRE OF GRAVITY and gravity affects you at your CENTRE OF GRAVITY.

Gravity affects all parts of you, not just your center of gravity.  

[Leyrann]

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Gravity affects all parts of you, not just your center of gravity.  

Gravity effectively affects the center of gravity of objects. In fact that's why it's called the center of gravity.

---

Good theory, and one day (not too long ago) I would have agreed with you. As others have pointed out, however, there are a number of flaws.

I do have my theory of the fundamental Surges though (see signature), which means I'm convinced that everything is basically an application of the Surges. I just think we shouldn't be looking at Gravitation, the Surge of Gravity, but rather the Surge of Motion (and Realmatic Transition): Transportation. It is what defines movement and distance, and you're directly changing the distance betwene you and the object, rather than using something like gravity. Which object moves depends on which one costs less energy to move, simple as that; that's how nature works.

As for why you can only push and pull on metals, this is because metals are the focus on Scadrial. Investiture is a Spiritual thing, and the focus is the way in which it moves to the Cognitive and Physical Realm, which implied that there is a connection between the different parts of a metal that are in the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual Realm, beyond how any particle or entity has such a connection. This is much in the same way as life has a connection, which shows the other Surge that is used (though rather passively and much less visible) to push and pull: Progression, the Surge that connects the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual Realm together to create a living object.

...And I think I found out that I might have to write a theory on Focuses before I can continue with Part III of my Surgebinding theory (the Metallic Arts) because refining that second part into a good theory is going to take too much text to do as an aside when I already have 16 8 metals to discuss.

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

Gravity effectively affects the center of gravity of objects. In fact that's why it's called the center of gravity.

My point was that the concept of a center of gravity is a simplification that we use.  In reality, the field acts separately on each individual particle.  This can explain how Kelsier was able to do his trick, as he mentally divided the bars into different sections and was then able to push/pull on them separately.  

This can also explain the larger issue of how pieces of metal are divided up into object that each get a blue line.  Why does a bar of metal only get one line, and not one for each atom?  Because the concept of the bar is a single object because of how people think of it (similar to Shadesmar beads).  If you're able to change the cognitive perception of the bar into two half-bars, then you can do neat tricks like Kelsier did.  

[Rustbringer]

I was under the impression that allomancers(and other invested folk) had a bunch of investiture in them keyed to whatever shard it came from. Also that the burning of metals acts like a key to access said investiture in a certain way. We all know that metals are realmatically significant to allomancers and metal contains higher native investiture than other stuff. So id suggest that steelpush and iron pull are simply allowing the investiture in the allomancers body to interact with the investiture in the metals around them and the lines are part of it. 

What made me think of this was Waxs experience with the bands of mourning. Where he saw that everything was in the form of investiture. The people, the rocks... Everything. Then backing it up again I mention that he used allomancy to throw the stones that pinned him. Proving that the amount of investiture you hold is the deciding factor. Not the relative mass

Edited February 16, 2018 by Rustbringer

[Calderis]

@Rustbringer Metal is not inherently invested, save the godmetals. Allomancers have a connection to Preservation through which the molecular structure of the metal acts as a key, which allows Preservation's investiture to flow into them directly. When they aren't burning a metal, they are no more invested than a regular person. The metal itself isn't invested either, otherwise it would resist push/pull effects just like a filled metalmind does. 

Quote

 

Zmann966

Is the metal on Scadrial specially Invested? Can an Allomancer use metals from other planets?

 

Brandon Sanderson (Part 1/Part 2)

Metal is a key, not the source of power itself. Most is not specially Invested. It glows because of the power seeking to come through it, not because of the power within it. source

 

[Rustbringer]

Well at least the realmatically significant part still carries. The metal is a key so it reacts with investiture in a significant way for an allomancer.  I still think my theory feels right though. I dunno. I think  I'll add the allomantic push and pulls are working more after the fashion of magnetism as opposed to surge gravitation. 

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Rustbringer said:

Well at least the realmatically significant part still carries. The metal is a key so it reacts with investiture in a significant way for an allomancer.  I still think my theory feels right though. I dunno. I think  I'll add the allomantic push and pulls are working more after the fashion of magnetism as opposed to surge gravitation. 

If it's magnetism, how is it able to push/pull on the allomancer themselves? That model works for effecting the metal itself, but fails for the purposes of the pseudo-flight we see.