[OB] Religion questions

[Carla Bridge Four]

Ok, first of all I'm really sorry if this has been asked before.

But I guess more cosmere aware fans can enlighten me

Did Radiants used to worship the three shards? Or else why are they 3 depicted in "the" room in Urithuru? Do we know why Odium is represented like he is?

Does the pagan thaylen believe in Passions have to do with Odium-Passion? I'm seriously believing it's something that comes from a time when Odium was the human's God...

Thanks to anyone that takes some time to help me through this  

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, Carla Bridge Four said:

Did Radiants used to worship the three shards? Or else why are they 3 depicted in "the" room in Urithuru? Do we know why Odium is represented like he is?

I don't believe that Odium is depicted. 

I think this is the three Bondsmith spren. The Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and The Sibling. 

5 minutes ago, Carla Bridge Four said:

Does the pagan thaylen believe in Passions have to do with Odium-Passion? I'm seriously believing it's something that comes from a time when Odium was the human's God...

We don't know. We don't even know that Odium was necessarily the human God, though the singers who wrote the Elia Stella definitely seemed to believe so. 

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Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiences? Did Humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

source

He arrived at the same time, and the humans were open to him to some extent... But that doesn't tell us all that much. 

[Ammanas]

@Calderis is The Sibling Cusicesh the Protector?

[RShara]

3 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

@Calderis is The Sibling Cusicesh the Protector?

He is not.  Cusicesh is at a level below the SF and NW.

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Questioner

Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.

source

 

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Ammanas said:

@Calderis is The Sibling Cusicesh the Protector?

We know Cusicesh is not of the same level of strength as the other two per the WoB R'shara shared. Even with that, prior to OB I believed he was the 3rd Bondsmith spren, being a level below as I thought he was a pre-shattering spren like the other two, but lacking the extra investment from a Shard like the others have from Honor and Cultivation respectively. 

At this point though, I don't know. I won't say I find it impossible, but Cusicesh seems more broken than "slumbering" so at this point I no longer think it's the third. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Calderis

[StormingTexan]

42 minutes ago, RShara said:

He is not.  Cusicesh is at a level below the SF and NW.

I do not think this precludes him from being the Sibling. Nothing says the third Bomdsmith spren has to be the same power level as the other two who are obviously tied to the respective shards. I’m not completely sold he is the Sibling but I also do not think this WoB makes it impossible as well. 

[Subvisual Haze]

2 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I do not think this precludes him from being the Sibling. Nothing says the third Bomdsmith spren has to be the same power level as the other two who are obviously tied to the respective shards. I’m not completely sold he is the Sibling but I also do not think this WoB makes it impossible as well. 

We're repeatedly told The Sibling is "asleep", had some past connection to Urithiru and that Stormfather wants humans to leave them alone because they've hurt them enough.

An incredibly conspicuous giant spren that regularly performs a weird magic thing on local humans seems about as likely to be The Sibling as Vivenna is.

[digitalbusker]

1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

An incredibly conspicuous giant spren that regularly performs a weird magic thing on local humans seems about as likely to be The Sibling as Vivenna is.

Oh, see, that's a common misconception, but it's just article confusion. Vivenna is a sibling. HTH!

[Carla Bridge Four]

Thanks to everyone who replied!

[ALAKA]

On 04/02/2018 at 3:11 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

An incredibly conspicuous giant spren that regularly performs a weird magic thing on local humans seems about as likely to be The Sibling as Vivenna is.

Wait, isn't Cusisech Vivenna? She's around there somewhere?

[The Invested Beard]

On 2/3/2018 at 4:27 PM, StormingTexan said:

I do not think this precludes him from being the Sibling. Nothing says the third Bomdsmith spren has to be the same power level as the other two who are obviously tied to the respective shards. I’m not completely sold he is the Sibling but I also do not think this WoB makes it impossible as well. 

This. Just because he is currently at a level below the SF and NW doesn't mean he was always that way. I have a feeling he was on the same level but something may have been stripped from him to make him the "lesser" being he is presently in the books. The WoB in question only deals with what Cusicesh is at the current time and leaves lots of wiggle room.

I could be completely wrong though.

[WhiteLeeopard]

There seemed to be some hints there was only one Bondsmith at the time of the Recreance, which is part of why the Recreance happened. At the moment the chances the bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling are high. Even if the breaking of the Oaths didn't kill the spren, as it was stronger than a normal KR spren, the Sibling would have likely been injured or hurt. 

Back to OP, I'm really curious why humans and Odium came at almost the same time as it leads to so many questions. Did Odium have any hand on the humans breaking of their original planet? If so why bother, and where did humans get their original power/surges from? Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

[RShara]

21 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

There seemed to be some hints there was only one Bondsmith at the time of the Recreance, which is part of why the Recreance happened. At the moment the chances the bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling are high. Even if the breaking of the Oaths didn't kill the spren, as it was stronger than a normal KR spren, the Sibling would have likely been injured or hurt. 

Back to OP, I'm really curious why humans and Odium came at almost the same time as it leads to so many questions. Did Odium have any hand on the humans breaking of their original planet? If so why bother, and where did humans get their original power/surges from? Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

I don't think so, as the Sibling was withdrawing before the Recreance happened.  I speculate it was withdrawing because it wasn't bonded, and was losing some sapience.

[Zapata]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:17 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

A possible answer is that Kaladin is bonded to an Honorspren (Syl) and Dalinar is bonded to the Stormfather, who are both splinters of Honor. Or it could be some sort of foreshadowing.

[Nymeros]

On 2/3/2018 at 5:35 PM, Carla Bridge Four said:

Did Radiants used to worship the three shards? Or else why are they 3 depicted in "the" room in Urithuru? Do we know why Odium is represented like he is?

I believe those are the 3 Bondsmith Spren. The other pictures showed the other Radiant spren didn't they? 

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Does the pagan thaylen believe in Passions have to do with Odium-Passion?

I would assume so but I literally cannot even recall what that religious movement is about.

On 2/6/2018 at 2:17 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

Did Odium have any hand on the humans breaking of their original planet? If so why bother, and where did humans get their original power/surges from? Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

You know, most of these questions are mysteries that Sanderson simply hasnt resolved and not things you overlooked.

I'm sure Odium had a role in providing humans the same gimped surges the Fused currently use. The world being destroyed is likely humanity screwing up somehow and Odium helped a group of them move.

Does it matter that Tanavast didn't make the humans on Roshar? They still worship ahimnd follow him as the Almighty, 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Nymeros

[StrikerEZ]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:17 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

Back to OP, I'm really curious why humans and Odium came at almost the same time as it leads to so many questions. Did Odium have any hand on the humans breaking of their original planet? If so why bother, and where did humans get their original power/surges from? Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

 

On 8/1/2018 at 4:44 PM, Nymeros said:

You know, most of these questions are mysteries that Sanderson simply hasnt resolved and not things you overlooked.

I know it's been several months, but we kind of know the answers to one of these questions. In regards to the humans destroying their original homeworld, we have this WoB:

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that rocked Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies...

And, if you were unaware, Ashyn has a disease magic system; when you get a disease, you get a magical ability of some kind. The relationship to the surges is similar, but with different rules:

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Shardbound [PENDING REVIEW]

Were the Surges used by humans, the ones that destroyed their previous home, the same as the ones that the Radiants are using.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, same basic principles. Magic system slightly different. Same basic principles.

We don't know if Odium was involved or not, but with how powerful the surges are and without the Ideals to restrict their usage, plus whatever the dawnshards are, since they were apparently involved in the cataclysm on Ashyn, I can totally imagine a scenario where the Ashynites just got out of hand and caused the cataclysm themselves.

Also, sorry this is so late lol.

Edited August 2, 2018 by StrikerEZ

[ScavellTane]

I'm gonna be idiot and do this:

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He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by ScavellTane