PrincessMorpheus Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 I just finished re-reading Elantris and I have so many questions. I think I need to write Cosmere stuff on my walls like T. Anyway, ATI is an aon? ATI like OUR Ati? Was Ati originally from Sel? Who is Jaddeth really? Is he the person who took up a shard? Is he Ambition? Because Hrathen keeps saying that he rewards the ambitious. Are the Dakhor somehow hemalurgically pierced? Are the bones bonded with adamantium or something? What is Lukel's name aon? The God trapped in the land sounds much like Ruin trapped in the well. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 All of the Vessels were originally from Yolen. There may sometimes be some name overlaps (Like Shash and Shashara), but generally these are coincidences or due to everyone having started from the Yolish language. The Fjordell religion is based on Dominion. No, the bones are just supernaturally strong due to the investiture used to create them (imo). No idea. Maybe Ake? Ruin's prison is different than what happened to Dominion and Devotion. Ruin's mind was trapped by Preservation's power. Dominion and Devotion were Splintered and killed and their power crammed into the Cognitive Realm to prevent them from gaining sapience. Brandon has Annotations for Elantris on his website that shed a lot of light on what's going on there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Anyway, ATI is an aon? ATI like OUR Ati? Was Ati originally from Sel? It's a coincidence, I think. Ati was Yolish (Yoleneese?), like the rest of the Vessels. 21 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Who is Jaddeth really? A god worshipped by Fjordell But no, while Fjordell is influenced by Dominion's Splinters, the schism of Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth happened long after Dominion was biting the dust. 21 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Is he the person who took up a shard? No. 21 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Is he Ambition? Neither. Ambition's Vessel was someone else. 22 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Are the Dakhor somehow hemalurgically pierced? Are the bones bonded with adamantium or something? Dakhor magic draws from the Dor, like all the Selish magic systems do. They use symbols formed by twisting the bones. As for what they can do, we've seen the bones to be extraordinarily strong, and the monks had enhanced body abilities. 23 minutes ago, PrincessMorpheus said: The God trapped in the land sounds much like Ruin trapped in the well. Coincidence? Yeah, probably - Selish Shards are long dead and Splintered. Khriss suspects the ground is Invested and even becoming self-aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 hours ago, PrincessMorpheus said: Who is Jaddeth really? Insert half-baked Unity theory here. (The honest answer is we don't know yet. Brandon plans for Wyrn to claim he's awakening in Elantris 2, so answers forthcoming?) On 8/21/2016 at 6:16 PM, The One Who Connects said: Firstly, a few points. Quote Jaddeth is the name of the Derethi God. He is said to slumber in the earth, waiting for a time when the whole world worships him to return and rule the world. Skaze: The Skaze were "evil Seons" and were related to Skai. They had a large amount of influence in the politics of Fjordell and strongly influenced the Dakhor. Secondly, the connections that can be made: 1. Skaze -> Skai = Dominion 2. Skaze -> Shu-Dereth -> Jaddeth 3. Jaddeth -> Worship = Devotion? Jaddeth will return when the whole world worships him. This feels either (a) too easy to be right, or (b) blatant enough to get overlooked. 5 hours ago, Oversleep said: Ati was Yolish (Yoleneese?) Khriss uses Yolish in the Ars Arcanum, so I'd go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLangdon Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 On 1/24/2018 at 9:17 PM, The One Who Connects said: Secondly, the connections that can be made: 1. Skaze -> Skai = Dominion 2. Skaze -> Shu-Dereth -> Jaddeth 3. Jaddeth -> Worship = Devotion? Jaddeth will return when the whole world worships him. This feels either (a) too easy to be right, or (b) blatant enough to get overlooked. I have some problems with this. skaze->Skai = Dominion. (Totally on board with this) Skaze > Shu-Dereth->Jaddeth (here’s where you lose me.) I know that the skaze are heavily involved in Fjordell culture and politics, which are dominated by Shu Dereth during the events of Elantris, but it’s important to note that the skaze most likely pre date shu dereth, probably by a hefty sum of years too. I would assume this because relatively speaking, shu Keseg is sort of new to Sel, while devotion and dominion probably had religions patterned after them for milenia before that. The Skaze, more likely saw Shu Dereth as an opportunity to increase the dominion of one empire, and threw in with it to advance their goals, though they probably don’t believe it themselves, similar to how Hrathen pushes his “Elantrians are Svrakis” argument on the arelenes, even though he doesn’t believe it’s true. It’s a tool to achieve a goal. Jaddeth > worship = devotion (also a problem here) in Shu Dereth people do not serve Jaddeth. Only Wyrn does. People serve a priest and priests serve higher priests and so on up the chain. It’s a key separation from devotion because people serve mostly out of fear or ambition, not out of devotion to an ideal or a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, BillLangdon said: Skaze > Shu-Dereth->Jaddeth (here’s where you lose me.) I know that the skaze are heavily involved in Fjordell culture and politics, which are dominated by Shu Dereth during the events of Elantris, but it’s important to note that the skaze most likely pre date shu dereth, probably by a hefty sum of years too. I would assume this because relatively speaking, shu Keseg is sort of new to Sel, while devotion and dominion probably had religions patterned after them for milenia before that. The Skaze, more likely saw Shu Dereth as an opportunity to increase the dominion of one empire, and threw in with it to advance their goals, though they probably don’t believe it themselves, similar to how Hrathen pushes his “Elantrians are Svrakiss” argument on the arelenes, even though he doesn’t believe it’s true. It’s a tool to achieve a goal. I drew a connection between the Skaze and Shu-Dereth because they are involved in it. The specifics of that involvement isn't important, and the Skaze don't have to believe anything. They influence Fjordish Culture, and this involves Shu-Dereth. Like you said, they probably picked this religion to make use of it, which makes the connection between them valid. The connection between Shu-Dereth and Jaddeth is also valid, since both have their origins in the Do-Kando. I wouldn't be surprised if Dereth was influenced by a Skaze while a Seon was influencing Korath when the two of them had their argument following Keshu's death. 17 minutes ago, BillLangdon said: Jaddeth > worship = devotion (also a problem here) in Shu Dereth people do not serve Jaddeth. Only Wyrn does. People serve a priest and priests serve higher priests and so on up the chain. It’s a key separation from devotion because people serve mostly out of fear or ambition, not out of devotion to an ideal or a God. "It was a very Fjordell thing to do—ambition was the one emotion Jaddeth would accept as readily as devotion." It's in the book. Not only that, it's from Hrathen. Also, serving is not always devotion. You make this point yourself. Man > Priest > Wyrn > God. Switch Wyrn with Pope and you've got a model that fits on Earth. Catholic people can worship god even if there are a few layers of the church between them and god. Nothing is changed here by making them Derethi, merely the regimentation of the layers between them. You can't go to Wyrn's sermons like you can with the Pope, but if Vatican City closed it's borders, then even that would be the same. We've only really had one religion that didn't involve worship, and that's on Scadrial. Even the Jeskeri Mysteries worshiped something, even if it was the movement of celestial bodies. Quote While the first Fjordell empire had expanded through military might, the second had expanded through the mass conversion of other nations. There's also this interesting tidbit from the wiki, showing that things changed. Military might is all Dominion, but conversion? That sounds more like Devotion. Perhaps this was a hint that the intents of D&D have finally started to merge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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