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20180122 - The Society of Two Houses - Part 1 - 3500 words - Mandamon


Mandamon

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Hello all,

This is the first part of the new novella I'm writing in the Dissolution universe. It's going to be a Sherlock Homles type mystery, so I'm interested in how well I've hooked your interest with the beginning.

Folks who have read my stuff before:
Can you place when this is happening? Is anything really confusing?

Folks who haven't read my stuff before:
How lost are you? This will be my fourth story in this universe, so I'm trying to wean back on how much I need to re-explain the rules of the universe.

Other questions:
What promises am I making (or what guns am I placing on the mantlepiece)?
What do you think of the main character?
Anything else...

 

Edit:

Things I forgot to include:

1) This ends halfway through the part, so it's a little abrupt.

2) I expect some comments about the MC and my screen name. Yes, they are the same, but I promise it's not a self-insert. It's a long story going back about 20 years, and suffice to say there was a dead, off-screen character in a very early manuscript who has now clambered back up to have his own POV!

Edited by Mandamon
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Interesting. I like the Symphonies, as I've been building a magic system that works very similarly, though without the exact reference to real musical terms. Those left me a bit lost.

The chapter seemed quite perfect for someone who's never read an inkling of your work, Mandamon. So good work there. Everything flows and is shown nicely. I don't mind some telling, though you manage to avoid any need for it except in the realm of how the Symphony operates.

I don't quite understand what you mean by promises. The chapter promises me nothing that I can tell. But I am not Sherlock Holmes, and I never bothered to memorize TV Tropes. Whatever literary obligations you're positing to the reader, I'm not detecting them.

You are an excellent main character, Mandamon. Your acting was so fluent, it drew me in. I still haven't the faintest clue what you look like, but your species reminds me of a reptile for some reason. Very snaky and sneaky, or perhaps reed-like.

Anything else? Hmm. I think you should be aware of why the Society of Two Houses is secret. It makes no sense and the answer is obvious because of what the mentor implied. I would strongly urge you to change that.

Maybe I missed the sentence, but I recall no reference to you taking the System Beast off the desk. Is it still there? That would be very bad if it was.

The writing was good. It was easy to read. I HATE Times New Roman, but I lived long enough to finish reading. I feel a headache coming on, so the font may end up being the death of me. I promise not to haunt you over it though, as it was a good and enjoyable read that caught me from the start to the unfortunate truncation.

Lastly, the chapter ended too abruptly. Like this review.

Edited by Curiosity's Splinter
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1 hour ago, Curiosity's Splinter said:

I still haven't the faintest clue what you look like, but your species reminds me of a reptile for some reason.

Good catch - this may be one thing that would be hard for new readers to catch. The MC is basically human.

1 hour ago, Curiosity's Splinter said:

I think you should be aware of why the Society of Two Houses is secret.

Yep, this is one thing I'm, struggling with plotwise. Interested to see what others say.

1 hour ago, Curiosity's Splinter said:

I recall no reference to you taking the System Beast off the desk. Is it still there?

Oops--need to fix that.

1 hour ago, Curiosity's Splinter said:

Lastly, the chapter ended too abruptly

Ah, that's because it's mid-chapter. Forgot to mention that!

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The very start of the chapter starts strong, with the title and the epigraph, but then it quickly devolves in a very slow pace with far too much info-dumping for my taste. It’s not until the scene break on page 8 that the main character started to show some emotion and that things were actually starting to happen.  

 

 

Epigraph: I like it. It’s short, succinct, and gives a hint of what the magic system is about, which at this point in the story is really all I need. You repeat some of what’s in the epigraph later on in the chapter itself, but having read the epigraph those later instances feel redundant.

 

Investigating with magic: Full disclosure, I’ve read some of your other works in this universe so I know a bit about the magic system, but it’s been a while so for all intents and purposes consider me a newbie anyway. The first eight pages of this chapter are basically about the main character using an unfamiliar magic system to solve a problem and you as the writer giving us as much information as possible to understand exactly what the main character is doing. And I really don’t care about any of that at this point. It doesn’t help that he easily gets the necessary information as well, due to him being special and having the necessary skills at the moment he needs them. So quickly he knows what was taken, what was on the paper, when the guy was murdered, and what he has to do next. He wasn’t even interrupted in his investigation. There was no hardship or conflict there at all.

 

Degree of separation: Someone has been murdered, but I don’t really care that this person is dead, and that’s mostly because the main character doesn’t seem to care. At most he feels it’s an inconvenience in his plans, but otherwise there’s no emotion involved here at all. Which also makes it hard to care for the main character. It also makes it hard to understand why he doesn’t just leave.

 

Info-dumping: See the above points. Too much information on the magic system, with nothing else happening for eight pages and with a character who’s (emotionally) detached from the proceedings is not a good start.

 

Investigator: The fact that he has the title of investigator is something I would have liked to have known before page 5, because it wasn’t until that point that it started to make sense to me that the main character was sticking around and investigating why the guy was murdered.  

 

Society: I get that ‘hearing’ two of the aspects of magic is rare, but what I don’t get is why there’s a secret society for them to begin with. Why do they need to be a secret? Is there a stigma against them? 

 

Bending the rules: This also feels like it’s too easy. The main character has all the magics he needs to get the clues he needs AND he has a mentor in a position of power who has no problem whatsoever to break rules to speed the investigation of his protégé along.

 

Races: From this chapter I don't really get what race the main character is, or what he looks like. Nor do I get what some of the other mentioned races look like. I think his mentor is reptilian, but I'm not a 100% on that.

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I liked this, especially the magic system. It made sense, wasn't too confusing, and I liked seeing it in "action" as the character was using it. I wasn't too lost as I read, thought I kept wondering what a System Beast was, and what the prototype was for, and more about the purpose of the character's meeting with the Speaker.

Is the place where M is meeting with the Speaker very busy; could someone tell a conversation was happening? Just wondering, since someone might be suspicious of the silence coming from the room when the Speaker was supposed to be in a meeting. This could add conflict to M's investigation, though I liked being taken through his uninterrupted use of the magic system. Maybe I'm just used to slower beginnings, but I don't really mind them.

As for M, I like his voice, and I also enjoyed the writing style. Very smooth and easy to read, nothing tripped me up except for page nine: "...could still direct me to where the list had been and, to some extent, where it had been."

Maybe add more description for the races, I had a hard time picturing what some where supposed to look like.

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Overall

Strong opener, but the tension drained as I read along. I think I need more buy-in about the society before I am concerned for it or its members. 

Your Questions

16 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Can you place when this is happening? Is anything really confusing?

I'm not sure. I don't have a good sense of time for this piece. It's not confusing at all, but I am familiar with the world.

16 hours ago, Mandamon said:

What promises am I making (or what guns am I placing on the mantlepiece)?
What do you think of the main character?

Promises about the system beasts (are they the same things that were sucking down symphony power in your last short?) and some illuminati conspiracy stuff, which is intriguing. Murder! Intrigue!

I don't have a feel for the main character at all. I'm not invested in him yet, but I have a fondness for the world, so that doesn't at this point, bother me.

16 hours ago, Mandamon said:

This ends halfway through the part, so it's a little abrupt.

Ahhh, that explains a lot. Will reserve judgement until I read the back half then!

6 hours ago, Asmodemon said:

but then it quickly devolves in a very slow pace with far too much info-dumping for my taste.

I had a similar problem. I know you're trying to reintroduce the world, but it did drag.

6 hours ago, Asmodemon said:

those later instances feel redundant.

Yup. Agree again.

6 hours ago, Asmodemon said:

There was no hardship or conflict there at all.

This was also one of my issues. Nothing really driving tension during the investigation.

6 hours ago, Truthweaver said:

I had a hard time picturing what some where supposed to look like.

Same here. A bit more personal description would be nice.

Overall though, a good strong start to a new novella!

 

As I go

- good cold open!

- page three: AH we finally meet your namesake, @Mandamon!

- page four: you've got redundancy with your kicker here. Suggest cutting

- page five: for me, being familiar with this universe, it's reading slow. I know you're doing this more mystery style, which isn't one I usually get into, so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think part of the slowness is also the backstory, but it's def necessary for the new readers

- page eight: it might be nice to get just a little bit more info about the Society before the break here, just so the name drop means more. I think it would help with tension, too

- page ten: I'm having a hard time carrying about the names of the society being stolen because I don't yet care about the society. I need more build up, I think

 

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Great comments--thanks @Asmodemon, @Truthweaver, and @kais!

Infodumping and not making a connection with the MC and the Society were my main concerns. I'll try to ramp up the tension to get a better connection to the Society earlier. 

12 hours ago, kais said:

Promises about the system beasts (are they the same things that were sucking down symphony power in your last short?) and some illuminati conspiracy stuff, which is intriguing. Murder! Intrigue!

Yep, that's pretty much it, though System Beasts aren't the same thing as the Symphony Eater--hopefully that will get explained.

19 hours ago, Asmodemon said:

The first eight pages of this chapter are basically about the main character using an unfamiliar magic system to solve a problem and you as the writer giving us as much information as possible to understand exactly what the main character is doing.

 

19 hours ago, Asmodemon said:

This also feels like it’s too easy. The main character has all the magics he needs to get the clues he needs AND he has a mentor in a position of power who has no problem whatsoever to break rules to speed the investigation of his protégé along.

This is one of the main problems I'm running into with the Sherlock-style mystery. Holmes is basically a superhero--he's never wrong, and the reader is following along in his tracks, which is why very few stories are from Sherlock's POV! I'm trying to get the same feeling with a younger MC who isn't as knowledgeable, and I'm running up against that problem.

Very good critique, though. This points out what I need to work on, and I think I can punch it up.

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I really enjoyed this opener, while it's a bit on the slow side—especially before the big reveal in the investigation—I don't feel like it was plodding since it was carried by M's strong narrative voice. Speaking of M, while their emotional detachment made them a little hard to relate to on a personal level that didn't make them any less interesting to follow, as their quirks seemed to mesh very well with the sort of character needed to carry a story like this.

In terms of the promises being made I see several. The first promise is the obvious one: that the mystery is going to be solved, probably by M, or else the story might just end as an exercise in frustration. The second is that the Society's secret is one that's going to shake M's world in some fashion. Another promise is that the System Beasts are likely to play some sort of role in the mystery, otherwise, why would we get so much of M's musings on the purpose of their research?

I've read a couple pieces set in this world before and I had no trouble following the "rules" established in this story, I think you did a fine job telling us how things work and showing us in the action of the story, so I wouldn't worry on that front.

As always, my (somewhat) page by page thoughts:

 

Page 1:
-The viewpoint character's analytical observations of their own situation is a little off-putting but does a really great job of setting up character.


Page 2:
-I like how the viewpoint character's investigation is broken up frequently by small actions (like adjusting their glasses) and even full tangents of worrying about how this inconveniences them—it gives the scene some breathing room and prevents the observations from becoming overwhelming.

-The mention of the "unique" situation that brought the research group together piques my interest.


Page 3:
-The viewpoint character's project and circumstances being partially secret nicely explains why they are conducting this investigation themselves and didn't immediately fetch help. I do wish that hints of this had come a little earlier, though, as the approval process seemed to be a pretty ordinary one earlier on, and not something that could possibly be suspicious.


Page 4:
-The Society of Two Houses being a secret at all feels a little strange, especially since the epigraph at the beginning presented maji able to hear two Symphonies as well-known, and there was no indication that the epigraph was from a private diary or something.


Page 5:
-I always love seeing how different forms of magic intersect in fiction, so the reveal of what the viewpoint character's two Symphonies can accomplish in concert (pun intended) is a real treat.


Page 7:
-While I still don't get why the Society is a secret, it works well as part of the mystery, drawing me deeper into the flow of the story.


Page 10:
-I really like the conversation between these two characters, it doesn't drag and we get a lot of key information here. I still wish—and I hate to harp on this—that I had some indication as to why the Society is a secret, though. Especially now that its leader can apparently have a body just disappeared with little fanfare.

-It's nice to have our viewpoint character also agree that it's fishy for the Society to be secret.


Page 11:
-My biggest disappointment is that things ended so abruptly before I could any deeper into this mystery and to the world itself.
 

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Overall, I think it's a good start, and the mystery complicated nicely. I didn't get much of a sense of personality from the protagonist, though. He kind of felt like "average hero, whodunnit type" to me. Mostly, I felt like I was reading the story out of order. Everything felt jumbled up, like descriptions were mismatched with the plot points they were next to, and I didn't really get any feeling of tension or worry because of it.  I also didn't really see anything belonging to Chekhov here besides the paper (which was mostly resolved), but I think that might be partially wrapped up in the confusion I felt. 

As I go

-- "I was even adept at the process, for my age" and so humble, too! ;)  It's the "for my age" that's making me "oh really?" with a skeptical eyebrow. 

-- I sort of feel like I'm starting this in chapter about 4, because I haven't had much background or information on either the protagonist or the place where it's happening. 

-- I am really interested in this startup business it sounds like the protagonist is involved in. I feel like maybe the story would flow better if it was told from that position, like Murder She Wrote, where the investigator isn't really an investigator, instead of the way it seems to me right now, with the protagonist being an investigator first.

-- Ah, pg3 has the beginning descriptions i was missing. 

-- Wait, why can't he go to the guard? I thought he was an investigator they'd asked in, like on Psych or Mentalist or Elementary. I feel like I'm reading this out of order and I'm getting very confused. 

-- Why are two-talent magic people a secret in a place that seems, from the bits I've read here on RE anyway, to be open and welcoming of new innovations in magic users? And the flavor quote at the beginning says double-talents are known and not impossible, so I'm slightly puzzled. I guess, if the group wants to be see-kret that's its prerogative, but it seems kind of silly... 

-- Wait, the double-talent is why he can't call the cops? I mean, dude's dead, so I guess that would mean there's something on or about his decomposing corpse that would tell people about double talents? And that being outed as a double talent is bad? Or, like, this secret society is a secret so poorly kept that investigation into any of its members would reveal it? And, also, like, revealing it would be super bad horrible? I'm confused. 

-- Wait the third, he's an Investigator, but not an investigator, and the police are bad because he's an Investigator and nobody's supposed to know he investigates? I've had to check what page I'm on, because I feel so much like I'm reading out of order. And, I mean, I have a weird tendency to read books back-to-front, page by page, so I'm really lost here. 


-- "where the list had been and, to some extent, where it had been" ...?? ??? 

-- If the society is secret simply because one guy's paranoid about everything, does that mean it's an open secret because everyone else thinks it's silly and doesn't try very hard? I mean, that's how things like that have gone in my experience, when it's just one person whose position prevents people from blowing him off entirely who is obsessed with something everyone else realizes is silly. That'd be a nice little joke if our POV protag doesn't know everyone else knows and just humors his old mentor and he can actually go to the authorities and just be like "We can't let Old Conspira-fogey know! Oh I'm so worried!" and they'll be all "Don't worry, kid, we got ya."

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I enjoyed that I was able to keep up with the story and the magic system despite not having it explained to me. The one thing that I did struggle with was the concept of the Nether, at one point you said that people lived within it, and another point you said that it translated something for the mc. So I was a bit lost about that. I really liked the main character, I don't feel like I know everything about them (I'm not certain as to even their gender), but I still felt like I connected to them.

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I. Am. Excited. Just clearing out my mind attic… go!

  • ability to drive new innovation and progress” – innovation is new, by definition, imo.
  • I really like this epigram. I don’t always like them, but this one is really effective in setting the scene for the story, simply and directly. Nice job. I guess I probably appreciate it a bit more than someone who’s never read a D-verse story, but that just makes me feel special :D
  • into common use of among/by the people” – sounded off to me.
  • a single gash at (deep) in the Etanela’s throat” – I feel this could have more impact. ‘at’ sounds really quite bland, like it’s a rather tasteless cravat, or something.
  • After Page 1, I'm on board. I think you’ve snagged my interest very nicely. I'm okay accepting that the m/c is rather sociopathic, and perhaps does not react to finding a dead body as one might expect.
  • fundamental music that underlies the universe
  • The last sentence at the bottom of the second page is a bit rambling.
  • His desk was clean clear save for a writing mat” – I feel that the point here is not cleanliness, but clutter.
  • was a low, sustained note in this area
  • undisturbed by any other energy source” – suggest: for flow, and possibility of more than just one other energy source.
  • hinting at the Society’s existence” – I think you could place a bigger stress on the secret here.
  • From the start, I'm not clear on what the beasts do, or their significance, which I’d like to in order to better appreciate the need for secrecy.
  • the second Symphony I could hear” – this is an awkward phrase, for me. Would it be wrong for him to say ‘my second symphony’?
  • a well-kept secret” – Is it just the society that is a secret, or the fact of hearing two symphonies too?
  • Capitalisation. You capitalise in ‘House of Pot.”, and also in one stand-alone instance ‘my House’. But, you don’t then capitalise in ‘my second house’. So, inconsistency, it seems to me. In my view, ‘H. of P.’ absolutely should be capitalised, as it’s a name. After that, I would suggest nothing else does.
  • something to which most maji are oblivious” – I think we’re oblivious too something external (but ignorant of something. Hmm, interesting.)
  • flow of many individuals who passed this way” – are these individuals there now? I don’t get enough description to feel the presence of other people. It’s like he’s still sensing previous passage of people this way.
  • Surely, there are a multitude of indentations in the writing mat. How can he pick out the newest set?
  • followed the music along its length” – not keen on the word ‘length’, but also the length of what: the music, the mat, the writing?
  • what had been important enough for someone to kill the Speaker
  • Why would this have the name the Society used for one of my two houses?” – There are one or two of these; unspecific words, words that confuse instead of clarifying. By ‘this’, I presume you mean the list, but it’s not totally clear. Also, this is a nothing word where there is an opportunity to be more colourful, descriptive, drive plot. E.g. ‘Why would the Speaker reveal the name…’  Secondly, the houses are Healing and Potential, but the list says Investigator. Surely, that is not one of his two houses?
  • the door to the chamber the Council of the Maji used” – awkward, compared say to ‘Council chamber of the Maji’
  • M. could be prone to paranoia” – I don’t mind the reminder of this, in fact, I appreciate it, but this is phrased like the first statement of the fact, and therefore felt repetitive. It could be phrased instead like Man. Citing a confidence he has already shared with the reader, like ‘his familiar paranoia showing’.
  • Lol – nice reference to the beasts in the basement :D 
  • walnut-colored exterior” – I think the best test for whether something should be a compound adjective is to put a comma in, which is how it could be read in the original form—as a list, so ‘walnut, coloured exterior’. Clearly wrong, ergo > walnut-coloured.
  • with a creak like a teak tree shifting in the wind” – awesome image. I wouldn’t know a teak tree if it fell on me (Woodsman pun, @kais?), but this is a lovely description.
  • so the N. translated for me” – I'm fine with this, but new readers are likely to be confused, I would think.
  • Page 9 – halfway down +2 lines, typo in Moot’s name.
  • “straight-legged” – imo
  • like someone snapping kindling into pieces” – awesome!
  • direct me to where the list had been and, to some extent, where it had been” – repetition. Sorry, I guess everyone is picking these!
  • That one came here first” – I'm struggling with the Ben calling Man ‘that one’. If there were two guests in the room, and he talked to Man about the other, would he not say ‘that one’. It seems to me the phrase clearly refers to someone other than Man. I suppose the Ben might refer to himself as ‘this one’? What if the Ben called himself ‘one’, as one would, if one was speaking properly formal English. Then, he could call Man ‘this one’, i.e. the one in front of him. Sorry if I'm meddling: ‘that one’ was not working for me.
  • There had been even less than that before” – fewer!!!!!  :angry: > ;) 
  • Society of Two Houses” – It’s all the name, I really think ‘two’ needs caps.
  • Yeah, why all the secrecy? That’s starting to pick at me.
  • had no sexual characteristics to hide” – I don’t think people wear pants to hide whether they are male or female. Is this perhaps one of those rare occasions when ‘genitals’ is the right word?
  • all travel reported back to the Council” – really? That must be a really boring read. Surely, it’s 99.9% people commuting back and forth from home or restaurants, shops, etc. Lot for the governing body to have to deal with. Is there in fact a processing centre somewhere to goes through the data drudgery?
  • I heard the music connecting the portal to the House of Healing” – I just want that precision of the details not being omitted.

Nice job, I'm totally on board with the story. I think it feels like a first draft, maybe second, but that’s why we’re here, obvs. So, I think this can be a lot smoother, with the issues (as I see them) ironed out. Plot wise, I'm not sure I'm totally sold on the stakes. I don’t understand the consequences of the society becoming known: they don’t seem particularly dire. In fact, I don’t know what they are, and man doesn’t either, which doesn’t help. I think that needs to be punched up quite significantly, and placed front and centre, nearer the beginning, if at all possible?

Still, good read. I’d like more of Man’s character, having seen him in later life. I’d like to see him experience more emotion, even if only internally, but there are some nice beats here, and a nice small cast to keep us concentrated. Some of the description is really nice (specifically of Ben) which makes me want a few more such nuggets along the way to ground me in the feel of the locations.

Next bit, please!

<R>

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Thanks to @Yuoaman, @industrialistDragon, @Rogueshar, and @Robinski! Great comments as always!

Yep, seems like everyone is picking up on the society being secret as a weak plot point. I'm interested to see how the next section reads (where some of that is explained). I'm hoping to bring some of that information back to the beginning, and maybe have M. know about it, to clear things up. Sounds like the concept is intriguing, but execution is flawed... 

 

14 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I am really interested in this startup business it sounds like the protagonist is involved in. I feel like maybe the story would flow better if it was told from that position, like Murder She Wrote, where the investigator isn't really an investigator, instead of the way it seems to me right now, with the protagonist being an investigator first.

Glad you like it! The business side of magic caught my interest as I was writing and I expanded more as I went along. You also have a good solution to the Sherlock Holmes problem of the MC being too powerful. If he can apply skills from another set, that might help things feeling too "easy."

 

11 hours ago, Rogueshar said:

The one thing that I did struggle with was the concept of the Nether

 

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

so the N. translated for me” – I'm fine with this, but new readers are likely to be confused

Yep--I knew this one would be confusing. I'l have to think on how to present this without bogging things down.

 

16 hours ago, Yuoaman said:

so the reveal of what the viewpoint character's two Symphonies can accomplish in concert (pun intended) is a real treat.

There will be more of this! It's something I'm developing in this draft and hope will be a lot stronger in the final product.

 

14 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I didn't get much of a sense of personality from the protagonist, though.

 

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

I’d like more of Man’s character, having seen him in later life. I’d like to see him experience more emotion, even if only internally,

Yep--this is something that I usually fill in more in later drafts. I've got more of it later in the story, but need to replicate here.

 

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

I'm struggling with the Ben calling Man ‘that one’

I had problems with this too, but settled on it to differentiate "this" (self) and "that" (other) one. I'll try your suggestion of using "one" for Moor, and see if that works.

 

Great comments all around (and thanks @Robinski as usual for the grammar and wording check!). This did exactly what I wanted, which is to point out where the opening needs to be punched up. I'm going to submit the second half of the first part next week and see how the opening of the story is received, the probably drop back a few weeks to tidy things up.

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6 hours ago, Robinski said:

Get used to it if you plan to submit your work; I believe it's very popular with publishers, enough to say that it's industry standard (@kais?).

Yup! When agents specify font, 99% of the time it is TNR!

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HI @Mandamon. Look, I'm really pressed for time this week, however you have been very gracious with feedback to my work and this is the first chance I've had to read yours. I read this waiting at lunch, away from my computer, so no detailed notes. Hopefully I have more time for the second submission this week.

I am intrigued. Oddly, I have used a similar idea around the "music of the universe" in my own story, somewhat based on the theories of Stephen Hawkins. It always amazes me how ideas that you feel are your own, really aren't. 

One of the earliest reactions the narrator has to the murder is about his own prototype and the rate at which it would now be approved given the death. That came off a tad psychopathic, as does his general demeanour and attitude toward the death. It's rather emotionless. It doesn't help me relate to this character. If this who he is, he needs something else, perhaps playing to his cold reactions a little more would help. I'm also, like the others here, a bit iffy on the secret society and the consequences of being known. It would be good to get a better explanation of that.

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Thanks for putting the time in, @toomsta! Every little bit helps. 

Great minds think alike! My original inspiration for my magic system was the music of the spheres, of Greek philosophy.

Yep, I usually put in more emotion in my second draft, so I can make the main character a bit less psychopathic. There's an explanation for all the secrecy in the second sub this week, so see what you think of it.

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