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[OB] Favorite theories on how the Stormlight Archive will end?


Steven

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Just wanted to read some possibilities on how SA could end, who you think will die before then, and any specific things that could be revealed in the next books.

My favorite general theory is that someone (I'm thinking Taravangian, Dalinar, Venli, or a Herald) Will sacrifice themselves or be sacrificed in a new version of the Oathpact after a war with the listeners.

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Tranquiline Halls are Ashyn though, not Yolen.

Personal theory: Book 5 is going to end with Dalinar reforging Honor and creating a new Oathpact, with our main characters (maybe the 10 that get flashbacks, in which case Dalinar wouldn't Ascend (yet)) staying on Braize for the 15 year break. After that, the true Last Desolation comes, which is almost a battle of the Shards, and ends with the triple Shard Guidance (honor + growth + passion), held by Dalinar, Lift or Adolin.

But hey, knowing Brandon there's going to be 200 unexpected but heavily foreshadowed plot twists and in the end Azure takes up Cultivation, Rysn takes up Odium/Passion and Kelsier takes up Honor.

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16 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

Did I miss something in Oathbringer or is this from a Words of Brandon I haven't read?

Implied WoB.

Spoiler

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that rocked Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies...

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Mash up of gut feelings, crazy assumptions, and educated predictions.

Book 5 Ending

  • Rayse dies. My best guess on who the replacement would be is Cultivation. Passion and growth could be a dynamic combo. I could see her swooping in after the defeat of Rayse and growing her power. I don't know how much stock we can put in Rayse's words, but the "she doesn't care if it's bad or good, as long as it grows" line makes me think of this. Could also play into the theory that Cultivation had a hand in splintering Honor. 
  • Don't think any of the first 5 are going to die, but maybe someone from the back 5. If I had to pick it would be Jasnah.
  • We'll find out what the "secret" of Aimia is.
  • Adolin, Navani, Lopen, or Rock will die. 
  • Shallan will slowly become more aligned with the Ghostbloods than she is with the Radiants. 

 

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12 hours ago, Kered said:

Could also play into the theory that Cultivation had a hand in splintering Honor. 

 

On 28-12-2017 at 0:51 PM, Leyrann said:

Can we please just get this theory out of here? It's been disproven by WoB two years ago and it still pops up every week.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/97-idaho-falls-signing/#e2729

Quote

Seonid

If Cultivation and Honor were romantically involved, why did Cultivation not help Honor against Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

She did.

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Kind of a skeptical comment, but I don't think the Stormlight Archive will end with Roshar intact. There have been numerous foreshadowings throughout the three books that our heroes will ultimately fail and Roshar will be destroyed. Even the driving slogan of the Knights Radiant "Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination" seems to imply that it doesn't matter how badly it ends, so long as the journey there was good. Plus I have a hard time imagining that Odium, one of the Big Bads in the Cosmere, will exit the stage before our big world-hopping space opera extravaganza. I just have this feeling he'll be a player in that.

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9 hours ago, Leyrann said:

 

I've seen that WoB, but I don't think it necessarily dismisses the possibility of her doing something other than helping. Odium could have manipulated her, she could have helped at first then changed her mind, etc. But like I said, I have nothing in the way of evidence. I just think it would be an interesting twist if Cultivation got so caught up in her Intent that she thought Honor was a roadblock in the way of Roshar growing. Basically "corrupted" by her intent.  

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1 hour ago, Alderant said:

Kind of a skeptical comment, but I don't think the Stormlight Archive will end with Roshar intact. There have been numerous foreshadowings throughout the three books that our heroes will ultimately fail and Roshar will be destroyed. Even the driving slogan of the Knights Radiant "Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination" seems to imply that it doesn't matter how badly it ends, so long as the journey there was good. Plus I have a hard time imagining that Odium, one of the Big Bads in the Cosmere, will exit the stage before our big world-hopping space opera extravaganza. I just have this feeling he'll be a player in that.

What foreshadowing do you mean?

Just now, Kered said:

I've seen that WoB, but I don't think it necessarily dismisses the possibility of her doing something other than helping. Odium could have manipulated her, she could have helped at first then changed her mind, etc. But like I said, I have nothing in the way of evidence. I just think it would be an interesting twist if Cultivation got so caught up in her Intent that she thought Honor was a roadblock in the way of Roshar growing. Basically "corrupted" by her intent.  

The question is literally whether she helped, and Brandon's answer is a simple "she did". I don't see how you could read it any other way...

(to go into a bit more grammatical specifics, with the answer being a simple "she did", Brandon can, assuming correct grammar, only be referring to the part of the question where "did" is used, therefore he must have been referring to the second part of the sentence, meaning Cultivation was helping Honor against Odium)

Edited by Leyrann
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Oh...there's plenty. The story of Fleet, for one. The Wandersail. Wit telling Dalinar he would watch the world die. As I said, the KR's first oath. There's others, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind. I'd have to go back and reread to find the others.

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12 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

What foreshadowing do you mean?

The question is literally whether she helped, and Brandon's answer is a simple "she did". I don't see how you could read it any other way...

(to go into a bit more grammatical specifics, with the being a simple "she did", Brandon can, assuming correct grammar, only be referring to the part of the question where "did" is used, therefore he must have been referring to the second part of the sentence, meaning Cultivation was helping Honor against Odium)

I fully admit to dicing up the question and WoB, but we've seen Brandon admit to using wiggle room even in the most direct questions. 

"-why did Cultivation not help Honor against Odium?"

Potential ways Brandon could use wiggle room with this question. 

  • Honor and Odium could have had multiple clashes, Cultivation only helping in one instance.
  • She could have helped at first, then changed her mind. Maybe seeing that the Honor was going to lose regardless of her aid. 
  •  "Help" could be potentially be defined different ways in this case. 

But again, I'm stretching the realm of possibility/reason. I just have an instinctual feeling based of what we've seen thus far from Shards, that the Honor/Cultivation/Odium dynamic isn't going to be just a black and white situation. With Rayse dropping that comment about Cultivation in his conversation with Dalinar feels more than just the bad guy trying to dismiss an enemy. I think Cultivation's motives are going to be more complex and one of the best ways to add complexity that would be interesting to read, would be to mess with the Honor/Cultivation relationship. 

Edited by Kered
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My little bro has a good theory on why there could be a 15 year gap between SA1 and SA2.

Odium chooses a baby as his champion. The foreshadowing of this is a death rattle:

Quote
I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. 
— Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24]

But the honor of the champion of light cant bring himself to kill Odiums champion so waits 15 years for him to grow up. 

Hence the 15 year gap between arcs.

Edited by Thanatos
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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 0:34 PM, Leyrann said:

Tranquiline Halls are Ashyn though, not Yolen.

Personal theory: Book 5 is going to end with Dalinar reforging Honor and creating a new Oathpact, with our main characters (maybe the 10 that get flashbacks, in which case Dalinar wouldn't Ascend (yet)) staying on Braize for the 15 year break. After that, the true Last Desolation comes, which is almost a battle of the Shards, and ends with the triple Shard Guidance (honor + growth + passion), held by Dalinar, Lift or Adolin.

But hey, knowing Brandon there's going to be 200 unexpected but heavily foreshadowed plot twists and in the end Azure takes up Cultivation, Rysn takes up Odium/Passion and Kelsier takes up Honor.

I have considered the 10 flashback characters (and Venli) going back to Braize for a temporary new Oathpact for the 15 year break.  I think the ultimate solution is something to replace the Oathpact but the temporary Oathpacty gives humanity (and allied Listeners) time to prepare for a desolation they know is coming with technology they didn't have before.  My question has always been this: Which member of the new Oathpact would break after only 15 years? Taln because he is still recovering from being tortured for 4500 years and broke recently?  Ash because she is still broken too?  My guess would be Venli because she would be tortured by her own kind (sort of) and viewed as a traitor which would draw more attention to her in "Damnation."  Just my crockpot theory

Edited by Drag0nR3born
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I thought the coming of the everstorm is the true desolation. 

This may or may not span both arcs. 

If it does its because Odium is very cautious of an attack from Cultivation if he takes on Dalinar/Stormfather directly. And time is of little consequence to him so his happy to wait it out and take things slowly.

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On 1/21/2018 at 1:34 PM, Leyrann said:

But hey, knowing Brandon there's going to be 200 unexpected but heavily foreshadowed plot twists and in the end Azure takes up Cultivation, Rysn takes up Odium/Passion and Kelsier takes up Honor.

If Kelsier shows up in SA I'm going to throw a party.

In seriousness though, I imagine at least one of our protagonists (hoping Kaladin) will become a worldhopper/more cosmere aware. Likely thanks to Hoid. I've always felt that SA was sort of the "main" series, but I guess that can't be accurate considering the amount of books that still have to be written (20/38 by my estimation). 

I'm not sure why there would be a 15 year gap in the series. Possibly the first half will end badly, and recovering/having new heroes will take that long? Maybe everything will be solved and then problems from another world will show up? I dunno. Odium seems to be the main cosmere villain, so I can't see him actually being defeated. Maybe he gets banned from the system, though from my understanding travel in and out of the Rosharan system is very difficult.

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I can't find it now, but I have seen a WoB stating that Odium will be alive during the second half. Rayse might not be, but he wouldn't state either way.

Either way, I think the SA will lead to the endgame of the Cosmere. The Shard split up and when their merry ways, but I think whatever happens at the end of SA will culminate in whatever ending Brandon has planned for the Cosmere. With that in mind, it has to be Shardic in nature to have such a far reaching impact. Perhaps more shards combining? A combining happening once might be ignored, but if it keeps happening it may force an intervention to stop it. Odium escapes. Odium has its vessel changed, then is letgo/escapes. While it would be satisfying, I doubt the shard Odium will be destroyed. The only way I see that happening is if in his death throes he lets some knowledge slip, or changes something, that has far reaching consequences after his death.

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19 hours ago, Drag0nR3born said:

I have considered the 10 flashback characters (and Venli) going back to Braize for a temporary new Oathpact for the 15 year break.  I think the ultimate solution is something to replace the Oathpact but the temporary Oathpacty gives humanity (and allied Listeners) time to prepare for a desolation they know is coming with technology they didn't have before.  My question has always been this: Which member of the new Oathpact would break after only 15 years? Taln because he is still recovering from being tortured for 4500 years and broke recently?  Ash because she is still broken too?  My guess would be Venli because she would be tortured by her own kind (sort of) and viewed as a traitor which would draw more attention to her in "Damnation."  Just my crockpot theory

So I was thinking of this one, and I figured - what if no one breaks? What if they just decide "we'll hold out for 15 years while you prepare" or, alternatively, go to Odium and say "instead of staying until we break, we will stay for 15 years and we promise to go back after"? Odium could accept the second if he thinks they'd hold out for longer than 15 years.

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20 hours ago, Drag0nR3born said:

I have considered the 10 flashback characters (and Venli) going back to Braize for a temporary new Oathpact for the 15 year break.  I think the ultimate solution is something to replace the Oathpact but the temporary Oathpacty gives humanity (and allied Listeners) time to prepare for a desolation they know is coming with technology they didn't have before.  My question has always been this: Which member of the new Oathpact would break after only 15 years? Taln because he is still recovering from being tortured for 4500 years and broke recently?  Ash because she is still broken too?  My guess would be Venli because she would be tortured by her own kind (sort of) and viewed as a traitor which would draw more attention to her in "Damnation."  Just my crockpot theory

The only problem with this is the Everstorm. When the Fused die they don't go back to Braize, they go into the storm, then are born again. Another Oathpact may keep some of the fused that have yet to be born contained, but all the rest are there to stay. Another Oathpact would require the disruption of the storm first.

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16 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

The only problem with this is the Everstorm. When the Fused die they don't go back to Braize, they go into the storm, then are born again. Another Oathpact may keep some of the fused that have yet to be born contained, but all the rest are there to stay. Another Oathpact would require the disruption of the storm first.

That might just be how Book 5 ends.

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The first 5 ends with a pyrrhic victory for our heroes.  The Oathpact is reinstituted, Roshar is united (humans and Parshendi are on the same side), and Honor is reformed.  However, Cultivation is shattered, the populations of all are decimated and the reader is shown that the new Oathpact isn't what we think it is. 

15 years later, the Oathpact is broken and Odium returns in full (as of Oathbringer, Odium is still trapped on Braize, he simply has some of his power available to be used on Roshar; this doesn't change as of the end of the first 5).  Roshar is destroyed before the 3rd act of the 1st book of the second 5.  The rest of the series takes place on Ashyn, Nalthis and the wasteland of Cognitive energies that Roshar has been turned into.

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13 hours ago, Leuthie said:

The first 5 ends with a pyrrhic victory for our heroes.  The Oathpact is reinstituted, Roshar is united (humans and Parshendi are on the same side), and Honor is reformed.  However, Cultivation is shattered, the populations of all are decimated and the reader is shown that the new Oathpact isn't what we think it is. 

15 years later, the Oathpact is broken and Odium returns in full (as of Oathbringer, Odium is still trapped on Braize, he simply has some of his power available to be used on Roshar; this doesn't change as of the end of the first 5).  Roshar is destroyed before the 3rd act of the 1st book of the second 5.  The rest of the series takes place on Ashyn, Nalthis and the wasteland of Cognitive energies that Roshar has been turned into.

Not sure why Nalthis would be in there (that would be a straight up crossover, which Brandon has said he will avoid for the Stormlight Archive), and why wouldn't Braize be in there? We already know for a fact that there will be scenes on Braize.

I can find WoBs but I'm lazy.

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19 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Not sure why Nalthis would be in there (that would be a straight up crossover, which Brandon has said he will avoid for the Stormlight Archive), and why wouldn't Braize be in there? We already know for a fact that there will be scenes on Braize.

I can find WoBs but I'm lazy.

Braize should be in there, but as a Cognitive realm location.  As for Nalthis, Warbreaker was a prequel of sorts, at least three characters from that story are characters in S.A.

But yeah, my synopsis was probably wrong.  Good on you for finding specific reasons why.

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