Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Ok, so I know that the whole AON ASHE and the Herald shallASH thing has been discussed. But has anyone else noticed JezrIEN? Edited January 16, 2018 by Greywatch Added [OB] because it was missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliasHandler Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) It’s even more interesting of a connection when you realize Shalash is Jezrien's daughter. So it’s possible they have some Selish ancestry, or at the very least some connection to the language of Sel or the names of the different Aons. It seems there are a few other connections to Elantris in the Stormlight Archive as well. At one point we spot Galladon in disguise, and at another the lighthouse keeper in Shadesmar says “Merciful Domi!” So there are definitely connections. Edited January 16, 2018 by AliasHandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Coincidences happen. The most obvious one is that Ati on Scadrial and Aon Ati on Sel have absolutely nothing to do with one another. According to Brandon, they aren't even pronounced alike. Similar parallels could be drawn between Roshar and Nalthis, if you look at Vo(rin), how shash is a letter/glyph in both worlds and of course there are three prominent worldhoppers from the latter planet on the former, one of whom has something of a history with Roshar. Brandon's already confirmed that the shash thing is a coincidence. But that doesn't mean that the Heralds are from Nalthis any more than a couple of shared syllables means they're from Sel. Riino is a very interesting cameo but at this point there are worldhoppers from literally every other major shardworld and one of the minor ones running around Roshar so we shouldn't read too much into it. Also, Kaladin initially thinks that Riino is Shin, which means that people from Sel (or at least the Aonic peoples) look distinctly different from the majority of Rosharans. Nobody looking at the Heralds has made a similar observation (but Dalinar did make that observation upon seeing Rayse) ergo the Heralds do not look especially Aonic. Edited January 16, 2018 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Weltall said: Also, Kaladin initially thinks that Riino is Shin, which means that people from Sel (or at least the Aonic peoples) look distinctly different from the majority of Rosharans. Nobody looking at the Heralds has made a similar observation (but Dalinar did make that observation upon seeing Rayse) ergo the Heralds do not look especially Aonic. Ash is stated to have weird eyes and shin-blood but of course this doesn't point to Sel. It simply proves the Heralds predate the Humans' adaptations to Roshar's envirorment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Weltall said: of course there are three prominent worldhoppers from the latter planet on the former Did I miss one or did you write "three" instead of "two"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said: Ok, so I know that the whole AON ASHE and the Herald shallASH thing has been discussed. But has anyone else noticed JezrIEN? Seeing as Ash refers to Hoid as Midius I would guess they are originally Yolish. Edited January 16, 2018 by The Sovereign 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, The Sovereign said: Seeing as Ash refers to Hoid as Midius I would guess they are originally Yolish. Well possible but I assume the Heralds are simply Ashlyn people or maybe among the first generations of Rosharan Human. Hoid stated he lived a lot of lifes even before the Heralds were born, so they are really a lot of younger than him. Probably they just have common knowledge (Tanavast) who refered to Hoid as Midius or maybe it's one of the name he was using when they meet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 There is also Kalak and Kalad and the Rosharan curse Kalak's breath. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Yata said: Well possible but I assume the Heralds are simply Ashlyn people or maybe among the first generations of Rosharan Human. Hoid stated he lived a lot of lifes even before the Heralds were born, so they are really a lot of younger than him. Probably they just have common knowledge (Tanavast) who refered to Hoid as Midius or maybe it's one of the name he was using when they meet. A good point. After a little more thought, I'd have to agree with this. [I think it is time for more coffee, my brain is working at like 16% at the moment...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Leyrann said: Did I miss one or did you write "three" instead of "two"? I counted Nightblood as well. Sentient swords with a fixation on destroying some evil are people too! 4 hours ago, Yata said: Ash is stated to have weird eyes and shin-blood but of course this doesn't point to Sel. It simply proves the Heralds predate the Humans' adaptations to Roshar's envirorment Does she? I didn't remember that and went back to check the Interlude where she appears and the only thing I saw was that Mem thinks that she has mixed eastern and western blood but doesn't mention her eyes specifically. 'Western' can mean a number of groups besides the Shin, particularly the Makabaki peoples like the Azish. Is there a more specific reference to her appearance that I've overlooked? Edited January 16, 2018 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Yata said: Ash is stated to have weird eyes and shin-blood but of course this doesn't point to Sel. It simply proves the Heralds predate the Humans' adaptations to Roshar's envirorment IIRC, Ash's eyes are weird because they very light-violet on an otherwise Makabaki-looking face. Makabaki have very few ligheyes, IIRC. Now Taln's eyes, which are dark brown, probably have a somewhat weird shape, because Dalinar noted both Heralds had odd eyes. OTOH, neither Dalinar or Amaram thought that he had "Shin" eyes in their prior PoVs when they visited him in the madhouse. 1 hour ago, StormingTexan said: There is also Kalak and Kalad and the Rosharan curse Kalak's breath. Kalad means eternity in Alethi, as revealed by the translated glyphs in OB. Vasher just used to be rather pretentious in his younger days, after his first vistit to Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 It's not definitive, but Kalad and Kalak may very well be unintentional. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/183-stormlight-three-update-6/#e3908 Quote Jamester86 Kalad and Kalak, Shashara and Shalash...a lot of names on Nalthis and Roshar seem related....pure coincidence? Brandon Sanderson There is a lot of crossover between the planets. But not every connection people make is an intentional one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 While the Herald's appeareance is interesting I wouldn't fixate on it too much, as for all we know they could change their aspect. For example, its not beyond the realm of possibility that as Cognitive Shadows they can appear how they imagine themselves to be, and they could have with time started seeing themselves as having eyes like the rest of the humans as they adapted to Roshar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 8:52 AM, Yata said: Well possible but I assume the Heralds are simply Ashlyn people or maybe among the first generations of Rosharan Human. Hoid stated he lived a lot of lifes even before the Heralds were born, so they are really a lot of younger than him. Probably they just have common knowledge (Tanavast) who refered to Hoid as Midius or maybe it's one of the name he was using when they meet. The Stormfather states that the Oathpact was made after the first Fused started to return. This would imply that humans had already left Shinovar (after living peacefully there for a time). Who knows how long after the human-Singer wars started Odium first returned dead, corrupted Singers as Fused but I would guess not right away. I would guess that the Heralds were human kings, generals, artists, scholars, priests, and soldiers from a few generations after the humans first attacked the Singers and during the first attacks of the Fused. So hundreds of years after humans fled Ashyn and settled on Roshar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 I think the Heralds are Yolish. Or at least predate the shattering. When Jezrien is confronted by Moash, Ash calls out Quote Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium! And we know how much thought Brandon puts into his religious curses/exclamations. I doubt it was meant as a throwaway line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Bliev said: I think the Heralds are Yolish. Or at least predate the shattering. When Jezrien is confronted by Moash, Ash calls out And we know how much thought Brandon puts into his religious curses/exclamations. I doubt it was meant as a throwaway line. Or maybe many planets had cultures were Adonalsium were workshipped. As @thejopen27 reported in the previous reply, the Oathpact were forged only after the Fused's birth. And if you see mine, Hoid states he lived tons of life before the Heralds were even born. This at least implies the Heralds are not pre-shattering people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Yata said: Or maybe many planets had cultures were Adonalsium were workshipped. As @thejopen27 reported in the previous reply, the Oathpact were forged only after the Fused's birth. And if you see mine, Hoid states he lived tons of life before the Heralds were even born. This at least implies the Heralds are not pre-shattering people At the time, we know no one worshiped the Heralds, and since the Heralds, over ~6000 years of life have become more Cosmere aware and have presumably met Hoid, Rayse, Tanavast, and (Cultivation) by the time of the current events, they must know about Adonalsium and the shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) @thejopen27 @Yata I'm sure they knew about the shattering, but would they have worshipped Adonalsium? Enough to call out to him/it? I suppose I interpreted Hoid's "lived several lifetimes" as demonstrating his age, but I don't think it means that all of his "lifetimes" were post-shattering. I think Hoid was likely very very old, (and very very knowledgable) pre-shattering. I imagine all the shard-holders were. Otherwise they'd have not had the ability/knowledge/worldliness to do what they did. But 'tis true both possibilities fit the facts we have as of now. Additionally, it always made sense to me that Hoid isn't the only non-shard-holding-person to have been present at the shattering. Frost knew/was there, likely. Could the Heralds have been people Tanavast trusted...maybe the only ones he trusted? I don't think we know. But I agree that many things could be true here. DARNIT BRANDON MORE INFO PLEASE. Edited January 18, 2018 by Bliev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bliev said: @thejopen27 @Yata I'm sure they knew about the shattering, but would they have worshipped Adonalsium? Enough to call out to him/it? I suppose I interpreted Hoid's "lived several lifetimes" as demonstrating his age, but I don't think it means that all of his "lifetimes" were post-shattering. I think Hoid was likely very very old, (and very very knowledgable) pre-shattering. I imagine all the shard-holders were. Otherwise they'd have not had the ability/knowledge/worldliness to do what they did. But 'tis true both possibilities fit the facts we have as of now. Additionally, it always made sense to me that Hoid isn't the only non-shard-holding-person to have been present at the shattering. Frost knew/was there, likely. Could the Heralds have been people Tanavast trusted...maybe the only ones he trusted? I don't think we know. But I agree that many things could be true here. DARNIT BRANDON MORE INFO PLEASE. I think the most likely answer is that the Heralds were just honorable people who were alive at the time of the first Fused led Desolation who agreed to eternal damnation to save their people. They were leaders, scholars, philosophers, healers, and warriors who wanted to end the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, thejopen27 said: I think the most likely answer is that the Heralds were just honorable people who were alive at the time of the first Fused led Desolation who agreed to eternal damnation to save their people. They were leaders, scholars, philosophers, healers, and warriors who wanted to end the war. It's definitely a plausible option for sure. Maybe even the most parsimonious one. I still don't think it explains the exclamation to Adonalsium though. If they already worshipped Tanavast/Honor, wouldn't she have used "storm father" or "honor" or another such exclamation? Maybe not--maybe they continued to call Honor "Adonalsium" in the early days after the shattering brought Honor/Cultivation to Roshar. But to my mind it raises more questions than answers. It was a big signal to me that the Heralds were not necessarily Rosharian/Honor-worshipping folks. But that's why Cosmeric supposition is so fun, right? because only one person knows. haha and he ain't telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Bliev said: It's definitely a plausible option for sure. Maybe even the most parsimonious one. I still don't think it explains the exclamation to Adonalsium though. If they already worshipped Tanavast/Honor, wouldn't she have used "storm father" or "honor" or another such exclamation? Maybe not--maybe they continued to call Honor "Adonalsium" in the early days after the shattering brought Honor/Cultivation to Roshar. But to my mind it raises more questions than answers. It was a big signal to me that the Heralds were not necessarily Rosharian/Honor-worshipping folks. But that's why Cosmeric supposition is so fun, right? because only one person knows. haha and he ain't telling. Maybe the humans who came from Ashyn worshipped Adonalsium and that early in their stay on Roshar, Adonalisum was still their god. Worship of Honor would develop over time, at the time Honor was the Singer god, it wasn't until the Fused came, and humans were losing badly that an oathpact with Honor was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) @thejopen27 That's true. I'm sure it may not have trickled down to everyone that some group of "people" murdered their god, after all. Religions aren't necessarily bound to what "god" or "sliver of a god" that might actually exist, after all. Mistborn "spoilers": Spoiler After all, on Scadrial they worshipped the Lord Ruler and no one knew who Ruin and Preservation even were, even after they actually CREATED the humans on that planet. Then again...I still think it raises questions about who the Heralds "really" are. Edited January 18, 2018 by Bliev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Wow, I just wrote "after all" three times in six sentences. Apparently I need a nap. Edited January 18, 2018 by Bliev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Bliev said: Then again...I still think it raises questions about who the Heralds "really" are. I think they were just people, people who cared and had honor who agreed to sacrifice themselves to Odium to stop the Fused from returning. I think they were just people. Good people who were asked to do more than they should and volunteered. The current Rosharans barely know about Honor and Cultivation why would the Ashyn refugees know about them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Bliev said: @thejopen27 That's true. I'm sure it may not have trickled down to everyone that some group of "people" murdered their god, after all. Religions aren't necessarily bound to what "god" or "sliver of a god" that might actually exist, after all. Mistborn "spoilers": Reveal hidden contents After all, on Scadrial they worshipped the Lord Ruler and no one knew who Ruin and Preservation even were, even after they actually CREATED the humans on that planet. Then again...I still think it raises questions about who the Heralds "really" are. The Heralds were kings, generals, priests and in some case commoners (like Taln) choosen to fit the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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