[OB] Why Odium and Roshar are Keys to Entire Cosmere

[1stBondsmith]

We know the following:

Odium appears to want to destroy all (maybe most) of the other shards

He has been stuck on Roshar a long time.

Humans destroyed "their world" before coming to Roshar using Surges

Odium was the Human god at that time.

 

It leads to follow that: Odium would be willing to stay in a place where humans can gain such great power through the surges, and with the help of corrupted spren, cause the humans to do the destruction. Now, he has both Listerners and Humans with surges that can travel into and through Shadesmar. If it was his goal, he could use them to destroy all Roshar worlds, and the other 10 uninhabited worlds of the system. If the cognitive shadows can travel, like Kelsier, through Shadesmar, other worlds could be threatened. With Shadesmar, The three Roshar moons, the other 12 planets (inhabited and uninhabitable) all at stake, and possible conquest into other worlds through the Cognitive Realm, this would be a huge power grab. This would be worth waiting for the Long play. Are Wit and the Sleepless too late to stop this?

Are people in Shadesmar aware of this threat? Are the Ghostbloods clued into this? (and is that why they don't want the listeners or the Humans to dominate too early?)

[+hwiles]

Hoid warned Dalinar that he would gladly see Roshar destroyed if he had to. I fully believe Hoid is aware of the threat a Roshar united under Odium would be. It's the most Investiture rich planet we've seen so far with a magic system more suited for warfare than any save for the metallic arts, and any Parsh can access it as Odium chooses. If Odium purges away the humans and shatters Cultivation his armies could probably burn most of the cosmere before anyone knew what had happened...

[Scion of the Mists]

20 hours ago, 1stBondsmith said:

If the cognitive shadows can travel, like Kelsier, through Shadesmar, other worlds could be threatened.

So, it's actually very difficult for splinters/cognitive shadows to leave their world.  WOB

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Do Spinters require proximity to their Shards?

...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

You see it with the-- I would call most Cognitive Shadows a Splinter in some ways. And you see it when Kelsier tries to leave, right. And spren would have the same trouble, and seons would have the same trouble. But at the same time is that a proximity to the Shard? Kind of. Things get very wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when you start dealing with the nature of the Spiritual Realm in the cosmere. 

 

 

WOB

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Could a Threnody Shade survive on another world?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Theoretically, yes. But they are highly Invested, and leaving a world where you're highly Invested behind when you have that Investiture is difficult, as Kelsier discovered, and as most spren discover.

 

You do raise an interesting point about Rosharan magic being used off world.  Regular surgebinding wouldn't work well, as you'd quickly run out of Stormlight.  However, whatever it is that the Fused do (voidbinding or corrupted surgebinding) is powered (presumably) by voidlight, which we really don't know much about.  I wonder if the mechanism by which they're getting voidlight would work off world?  

 

 

[Cosmernaut]

Is this basically saying that Odium is a candidate for the Cosmere's big bad? Because if so, I can really get behind this.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

I have this theory on how to deal with the nine and the fused in a potentially permanent manner. The loss of such a key aspect of his force would stall his plans, and make his conquest and consolidation of Roshar far trickier. He would still have the void spren and all his power

[Toaster Retribution]

I don't think Odium is interested in destroying random desolate planets. He wants to kill Shards, and maybe humans/other sentient kinds of people. Uninhabitable planets doesn't interest him. 

Otherwise, this is an interesting idea. I doubt Odium would steamroll everything though. Scadrial might be able to put up a good fight, thanks to Harmonys power, the powerful magic, and tech far above what Roshar can access. Similarly, Elantrians are very powerful. If Odium started a Cosmere-wide war, I think some Shards and worldhopper would ally and prepare the Shardworlds to defend themselves.

[VladJunior]

Odium's army would be powerful, but consider other shards who have the ability to multiply their forces. Vasher, or the God King, could simply Awaken a mechanical army to take on surgebinders. Not all of the surgebinders will have shardblades. And even if they do, the robots could be coated in aluminum to make it more difficult to take down the mech soldiers with a blade. Scardial could launch a propaganda campaign using just Rioters to stir up their population or infiltrate Roshar. etc.

[Clovermite]

On 12/25/2017 at 7:44 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

I don't think Odium is interested in destroying random desolate planets. He wants to kill Shards, and maybe humans/other sentient kinds of people. Uninhabitable planets doesn't interest him.

 

Agreed.

I would even go farther to say that he doesn't want to destroy other sentients, he wants to enslave them. We've seen that he doesn't care who his servants are, so long as they embrace their passion and become subservient to his will.

On 12/22/2017 at 3:19 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

So, it's actually very difficult for splinters/cognitive shadows to leave their world.  WOB

 

I think we've already seen highly invested people leaving their own planet in Secret History. The (presumably) Elantrians built that city with the glowing stones, and had to keep drinking that white fluid. I suspect that the white fluid has something to do with connection, as Kelsier suddenly started understanding their language when coming into contact with the white energy. I also remember a WOB where he said that it wasn't exactly connection, so there is probably a little more to it.

Regardless, while it is difficult, I think we can safely assume that it's doable with the right resources.

[Arash.F]

On 12/25/2017 at 4:14 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

I don't think Odium is interested in destroying random desolate planets. He wants to kill Shards, and maybe humans/other sentient kinds of people. Uninhabitable planets doesn't interest him. 

Otherwise, this is an interesting idea. I doubt Odium would steamroll everything though. Scadrial might be able to put up a good fight, thanks to Harmonys power, the powerful magic, and tech far above what Roshar can access. Similarly, Elantrians are very powerful. If Odium started a Cosmere-wide war, I think some Shards and worldhopper would ally and prepare the Shardworlds to defend themselves.

I think the other shards won't consider Odium a threat regarding a cosmere-wide war. You can see that by the confident tone the first letter (apparently associated with Endowment) implies in the OB

"If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will you."

 

On 12/22/2017 at 3:27 AM, 1stBondsmith said:

We know the following:

Odium appears to want to destroy all (maybe most) of the other shards

He has been stuck on Roshar a long time.

Humans destroyed "their world" before coming to Roshar using Surges

Odium was the Human god at that time.

 

What's your guess on his attitude towards Cultivation? surely he considers Cultivation a threat, as Stormfather suggested

I don't recall the exact terms, but it was something about "Odium not fully coming forth, since he doesn't want to make himself vulnerable to Cultivation" if i correctly recall.

[1stBondsmith]

Thanks for using the word guess in your question, because that's all we can do on this topic.

If odium really wants to diffuse the power of shards, he needs to have as much of his power consolidated to take on other shards (balance of power thing). That means that with some of his power in the unmade, the listeners, and anywhere else his investiture is being used, he will likely be that much less available for a face to face confrontation. Cultivation plans long and well. She is likely to be a gardener, and not invest in her creations as much as she allows them to grow with guidance (See Intent of Cultivation). I think she in not nearly as invested as Honor was, almost by definition, therefor Rayse fears her in a direct confrontation. He probably also fears her machinations while he has been so long in her planet system. I think Rayse fears and envies Cultivation, but I would need more backstory to infer more. 

[Yezrien]

I like this theory. I'm not convinced Odium will be the ultimate Big Bad of the cosmere, but I can see Roshar and its magic systems being hugely influential in future wars and interplanetary empires.

It reminds me of Dune, which was one of Brandon's influences early in the development of the cosmere (most directly on White Sand). In Dune, the harshest worlds breed the hardiest warriors. Clever emperors settle on the most inhospitable planets and raise unstoppable armies there. They say God made Arrakis to train the faithful. Maybe Adonalsium made Roshar with similar intentions.

[deeptheory]

@Belzedar Oh man, I loved those comparisons at the end there.  Oh storms, this actually builds even more into my growing hype that Cultivation and Honor have been chilling on Roshar (starting way back even before Odium came into the picture) and their intents are just... perfect for breeding strong/resilient beings.

The stormfather seen as having cultivation investiture as well is exactly something that could be used to cultivate a planet in its entirety.  It's potential to 'cull' things seems much more like a cultivation thing than an honor thing, honestly.  How does the stormfather/highstorm even relate to Honor?  Oh this changes things in my mind... what if.. so we know that cultivation seems to 'take' things (prune) in exchange for granting power/investiture/boons, so that she doesn't become 'thinned out'(I'll see if I can find the exact quotes).  Now we also know that Honor was splintered by Odium, or at least that's what the story is so far, I wouldn't say we have complete knowledge on that.  We also know that Honor and Cult were working together, splinters/investiture can be restored, and Dalinar has a nice booty.  What if Cultivation 'pruned' Honor either as part of a plan or in a last ditch effort to 'save' him in an effort to eventually restore him.  And this is where the stormfather/highstorm comes back, we think of it as a thing of Honor because that's what it calls itself, a mere shadow of a god.  I'm thinking Cultivation somehow put Honor's power into the stormfather to eventually restore him....  But that's just a crackpot theory I've been stewing on.. I need to do a re-read.

Edited February 5, 2018 by deeptheory

[Draginon]

@Belzedar What if Odium is a big bad? I mean what if there's more than one but it's a case of grey and gray mixed with blue and orange morality? That could bring the potential of some other characters being considered villains as well for the stuff they do to the planets during the later events of Roshar and Mistborn in SPACE!!! such as 'good' shards, and maybe even Hoid, being more destructive than we thought. Heck maybe all the shards get reunited back into Adonal but we could learn maybe it was better he was shattered than left alive. I mean Brandon is about overturning our expectations so maybe A isn't nice at all.