[OB] The powers humans wield

[dgenio8]

I just finished OB and I'm not sure this is a mistake from Brandon (less likely) or another case of unreliable narrator.

Now, we were told that humans fled from their homeland wielding power of surges.

However, previously we have been told that nahel bonds only started to happen after the oathpact was formed, and spren copied what they saw in honorblades.

Of course, this two timelines are incompatible on the light of oathpact being done after humans arrived on roshar.

I see a couple of hypothesis.

- humans wield odium surges. However, I think we have no evidence for the existence of this

- humans have other magic system in their origin

Ideas? Did I got something wrong?

[Michael Portz]

It is agreed upon in MY incomplete understanding, that these "original" surges were similiar to, but different from Nahel bond related surges, i.e., they were from a different magic system, i.e. there was an unreliable narrator involved.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Michael Portz
unreliable narrator

[Yezrien]

It's possible they manipulated the same surges but in a different way, without bonding spren. Fabrials show that this is possible. The Dawnshards might have been giant fabrials.

[StormingTexan]

There is a WoB on this.

 

Quote

 

Shardbound [PENDING REVIEW]

Were the Surges used by humans, the ones that destroyed their previous home, the same as the ones that the Radiants are using.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, same basic principles. Magic system slightly different. Same basic principles.

 

 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

It the magic system inherently flawed, or is there another reason why the human ruined their original home? If the Roshar surge binding is so similar, could aspects be carried over to make it safer.

[Chandlerhimself]

I’m pretty sure it was the Dawnshards that destroyed the last planet. We don’t know how they work, but I’m guessing they’re similar  to the surges we see now.

My guess is that the Nahel bond oaths are a safety mechanism that prevents people from going too crazy with their powers and destroying Roshar. If a radiant breaks their oath their spren dies and they lose their powers. Of course there seem to be ways to destroy Roshar without breaking the oaths, so I imagine that’s why Honor went on that crazy rant and the recrence happened.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Odium is all about passion, not much about self control. Renarin is a knight radiant, yet his spren is apparently corrupted. So he could technically draw upon the power of multiple magics. So the knight radiants might be a way to safely channel at least a portion of odium power, especially if that corrupter of spren in truly looking to defect.

[The One Who Connects]

On 12/21/2017 at 2:24 AM, dgenio8 said:

Now, we were told that humans fled from their homeland wielding power of surges.

However, previously we have been told that nahel bonds only started to happen after the oathpact was formed, and spren copied what they saw in honorblades.

Of course, this two timelines are incompatible on the light of oathpact being done after humans arrived on roshar.

See, it doesn't even register as an error when you consider that Honorblades are a hack, rather than a magic system. The Honorblades are a hack of a system that already existed, but wasn't in use on Roshar. It's like saying Hemalurgy doesn't exist anymore just because nobody is using it. Hemalurgy already existed before TLR used it, just as the Surges existed before Honor made the Honorblades.

On 12/21/2017 at 2:24 AM, dgenio8 said:

- humans have other magic system in their origin

Surgebinding is what I would call the magic system, regardless of the method used to access it. The Nahel bond isn't the only way to access the surges, as proven by Honorblades and Fabrials(and possibly Hemalurgy), so why not have another method in use on Ashyn before humanity fled? (Honor mentions humanity destroying their prior world via the Dawnshards, so... perhaps something to do with those?)

[Blazenella]

ONE WORD:

DAWNSHARDS

[DocHoliday]

• The original Voidbringers were Ashyn refugees.
• They were Surgebinders and
• hey worshiped Odium. 

Now, we've seen in OB that the Fused are clearly wielding Surges and are being powered directly by Voidlight from Odium. It's not a stretch to imagine Odium did the sAme with humans

[dgenio8]

Thank you all for the clarifications. However, something steel seems weird to me. Now, gathering all your input, I conclude that the accepted theory is that Surgebinding (the manipulation of the surges of nature) is something that can be accessed by different methods:

- Odium : Method unknown. Fused and potentially the original humans

- Honorblades: Splinters of Honor. Heralds

- Nahel bond: Spreen. Knigths Radiant

-Fabrials:Spreen

This makes a lot of sense, BUT it does't fit with the MY head cannon of the Cosmere. I emphasize my because I could be wrong about something.

In what I saw so far from the Cosmere, magic systems appear as an interaction between Shards and the worlds their in. There a theory in this forum (from @Confused I think) that even links that to the original Adonalsium investiture. I always had this idea that Surgebinding is intrinsically related with Honor and Cultivation and was the result of the interaction of this two Shards and Roshar. Now, we have WoB that state that a Shard can be incorporated in an pre-existing magic system (if a new Shard did something it would have a god metal in Scandrial), and this could explain the existance of the Fused (Odium incorporate in the system Honor and Cultivation generated). However, this states that, if Humans come from a place with only Odium as their god, their would not have access to it