Words of Radiance Reactions (SPOILERS)

[Chaos]

Words of Radiance is out now, so it's time for the obligatory general reactions topic. You already know my initial reactions, but what did you guys think?

Obviously, this thread will have spoilers. If you don't have the book, stop right now. Seriously. Go. I mean it. And if you have the book and you haven't finished, what are you still doing on this site, go read it, dummy.

Here are a great many empty lines so wandering eyes don't go here. If it's a major spoiler, probably put some spoiler tags on it. I'll post my spoilery reactions in a bit, but first, I want to know what you all think.

[Dru]

Greetings

 

So finally it’s Tuesday and words of radiance is here. Now for the question that everyone wants to know. What did you think about the book?

 

I will here write my take on the book, what I think was good and bad mostly. Spoilers follow, I will not show actual text from the book but I will mention scenes so stop reading if you have not read the book and do not want to know what happens.

 

Lets start with a general impression of the book. I think it was good it was really good, I have so far rated it a 5/5 but the more I think of it more things that really annoy me comes to mind so I will let it rest a bit and after the hype have settled read it again, maybe it will end up as a 3,5/5.

 

The book is full of action and I started reading chapter 7 that was a hit in the face, not 100% unexpected but still, Jasnahs death was something that I hoped would set the tone fore the book.

 

Shallans chapters were really good and I like her a lot more in WoR than tWoK. She progress nicely and her involvement with the ghostbloods is really nice. Shallan as a spy was quite far from the girl we got to know in tWoK.

 

One of our other main characters, Kaladin, all I can assay is that he is the same through out the book until the very end. I so wanted to spear him for most part of the book. I got so bored with his character. The awesome fights, dueling arena, chasmfiend and Seth were really cool for most part. Right now when it have been a few days since I read the book and I have been reading sections of it again these fights among them I have a little different feeling for them. Somehow these scenes feel like they are trying to hard to be awesome.

 

Firstly the duel is al good up until the end. When he slaps Relis sword with his hands and they both hear the screams and Relis runs out I’m just sitting there like a big question mark.

 

Second the chasmfiend fight. I don’t know it was not bad but again trying to hard to be awesome it feels unrealistic considering Syl had left him.

 

And lastly the tired Ideal and Seth. When I read the part of when he says the third Ideal I just felt “no not a repeat of tWoK”. It’s almost a complete repeat just different scenario, wounded, impossible fight in front of him. And bam third ideal and “ I am awesome”, I was actually really disappointed here.  Then the Seth fight was mostly just flying around and what we learned was that the radiant can have the speren take any form they want, yes that’s right speren is the shardblad and al non radiant blades are “dead” speren from the breaking of the bond between radiant and said speren. For me I think it would have been a lot better if Kaladin figured out the third Ideal when he was in prison and had time to use his brain for once but of course instead he wined about the injustice in the world.

 

So far the book was overall really good and the negative points so far is to be honest minor points what really and I mean really annoy me is when dead characters don’t stay dead! This is a huge issue for me and it feels like the story is back where it started in this book. We have had a bit of character progression and world building but the overall plot feels like nothing happened really.

 

And last negative point ….. NIghtblood….. This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules where did a Herald get Nightblood from and This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules does it do in this series. The cosmere stuff is al nice and dandy as long as it stays relatively hidden but when a mix like this starts then I become very skeptical. The future will show how this plays out

 

For me Shallan carries this book

 

 

There is a lot more to say and discuss but this is my main points so far. I hope we can discuss other things in this book as well, below are more heavy spoilers. 

 

 

Dalinar and his speren… also a little This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules moment for me instead of the I guess intened awesome moment.

 

Renarin as Truthseeker

 

And the most awesome of al, glowing Lopen

 

The fractions:

-Church  (Amaram, Restares)

-Radiants (Shallan, Kaladin etc..)

-Ghostbloods (Iyatil or how ever they spelled the names)

-Skybreakers (Nalan and his fellows) btw are they the ones that did not give up their shards and killed of the other radiants after they had given up their shards?

-The shin Stoneshamans with the remaining 7 honor blades 

-The Diagram (Mr T)

 

 

Btw what happened to Talns honor blade it was not the blade that Dalinar had since that blade was screaming....

 

 

 

 

[Tortellini]

Haha, after getting the book last week already I was waiting for today to come, so that the lucky few of us can start talking

My reactions to you, and some general reactions:

In general, I really liked it. Great book, fun to see more of the world, and really cool stuff happening. I would give it an 8 out of 10 for Brandon.

 

My main issue is that book one was mostly setting up stuff, and I was really hoping for more somehow. Book 2 sets up a lot more, and it does all it needed to do, but it seems "on rails" sometimes and doesn't quite go beyond that always... It has a bit too much of "moving pieces in the right place for later awesomeness" feeling, both within the book and as a whole for setting up later books. This is only bad because it feels like the book itself lacks a bit of "grip" because of it. Biggest issues:

 

1. Yes, Kaladin was both static and generic for most of the book, and then repetitive towards the end. I really don't get it - he blatantly violated the second ideal for a long time, and the third is really just the fine print for the second. This shouldn't have been necessary, and it feels like his character is stalling. The fights were great - strangely enough both fights with Szeth didn't do much for me.

2. Szeth in general was underused. He was fun in his fight on the Plains before Kaladin got there, but not with him. He also was repetitive: He had two revelations that there's a Surgebinder there - and after the first he just goes and lets Taravangian talk him into "Oh no, wasn't the case after all..." That was ridiculous - after Kaladin fought with a normal spear against Szeth, almost dying, Szeth thinks he might have an Honorblade? Sure, that wouldn't have been useful fighting him... Still, despite the unnecessary loop, the place he's left at in the end promises a lot for the next book. Love it, and looking forward to seeing his new friend interact with Roshar

3. The final battle was a bit underwhelming. No one really expects the everstorm not to happen at that point, and the portal is also clearly happening, so it's not that exciting. They weren't even forced to withdraw against an overwhelming force. I assume this is because the Stormform parshendi needed to disappear.

4. Shallan. Her book, but didn't care so much. The ghostbloods thing is interesting, but her past was really what was expected. The surprise (Pattern was her blade back then) doesn't really work for me and is less satisfying than if she had a blade from elsewhere somehow. It doesn't quite ring true for me...

5. Sadeas: I didn't care that much. He was not really a problem in the end and yet a constant bother. Not really fleshed out in his plans and goals I felt, they didn't click for me. Glad it's over at least, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him go.

6. Death: With both Szeth and Jasnah returning, and Shardblades losing a lot of their danger with Kaladin healing his arm, Death has been letting me down this book. Too much resurrection for my taste.

 

 

Some other comments:

Taravangian: Little of him, but fun and we see his hand. Great and looking for more.

Heralds: They're out there, and getting more obvious. Who's betting on the Swordmaster as one? Taln not really there yet, which is ok, keep him for later.

Selabrial: Fun. Loved him and his wife.

Amaram: Pretty happy with how he ended up. The whole him leading the KR was a bit weird, but it never led to anything so that's ok (what was up with that? Did he do anything? Or just wear the cloak for a month or 2?)

Rhysn: Cool interlude! And the Islands, a wow moment! I wish there would've been a bit more of the worldbuilding interludes, but they got a bit sidelined for side plots, and with Ym and Lift prereleased they didn't register much any more.

Jasnah: Was shocked first - then at the end I wish she would've stayed dead. Although there's a chance this is awesome: I'm really hoping this is not just an escape - she actually is dead!! She's now in whatever the Tranquiline Halls or Damnation are, and Hoid has a way there. Might allow her to return, but only at a great effort...

 

My favorite moments:

- The big arena fight. Great, and diverse.

- Kaladin and Adolin bonding. A bit predictable but very well done and enjoyable

- Jasnah's death. Big surprise and well done. And it felt so final, with the dagger hitting the wood. As above, I hope she's in the Halls, or maybe even Damnation.

- Shallan on the boat and working her way to the Plains. She got less interesting once she got there. Exception: Shallan sneaking into Amaram's place - great moment!

- The little Selabrial moments

- Walking Islands interlude, and Lift interlude to a lesser degree - her character is a bit grating for me, but the worldbuilding was great.

- Eshonai before Stormform. After she was a plot device on rails.

- EDIT: Oh I forgot: Bridge 4. All of the guys. How could I forget...

 

Edited March 4, 2014 by Tortellini

[bartbug]

On mobile, so spoilers.

I loved this. Also, I need to read it again to evaluate. But when I saw Nightblood, I fist pumped for a couple of minutes. Words can not express how awesome that is to me.

[Satsuoni]

Spoilers

I liked (well, as much as I can like anything) most of the book Except Shallan flashbacks. Those just didn't mesh with me well, perhaps because of my own inner demons   Szeth's revival was.. weird. The man had his eyes burned out and went splat along the stormwall, and yet didn't sustain enough brain damage? Wut. Still, I find it hard to dislike him as I once had. And now, let's mine the book for info

Edited March 4, 2014 by Satsuoni

[Dru]

Haha, after getting the book last week already I was waiting for today to come, so that the lucky few of us can start talking

My reactions to you, and some general reactions:

In general, I really liked it. Great book, fun to see more of the world, and really cool stuff happening. I would give it an 8 out of 10 for Brandon.

 

My main issue is that book one was mostly setting up stuff, and I was really hoping for more somehow. Book 2 sets up a lot more, and it does all it needed to do, but it seems "on rails" sometimes and doesn't quite go beyond that always... It has a bit too much of "moving pieces in the right place for later awesomeness" feeling, both within the book and as a whole for setting up later books. This is only bad because it feels like the book itself lacks a bit of "grip" because of it. Biggest issues:

 

1. Yes, Kaladin was both static and generic for most of the book, and then repetitive towards the end. I really don't get it - he blatantly violated the second ideal for a long time, and the third is really just the fine print for the second. This shouldn't have been necessary, and it feels like his character is stalling. The fights were great - strangely enough both fights with Szeth didn't do much for me.

2. Szeth in general was underused. He was fun in his fight on the Plains before Kaladin got there, but not with him. He also was repetitive: He had two revelations that there's a Surgebinder there - and after the first he just goes and lets Taravangian talk him into "Oh no, wasn't the case after all..." That was ridiculous - after Kaladin fought with a normal spear against Szeth, almost dying, Szeth thinks he might have an Honorblade? Sure, that wouldn't have been useful fighting him... Still, despite the unnecessary loop, the place he's left at in the end promises a lot for the next book. Love it, and looking forward to seeing his new friend interact with Roshar

3. The final battle was a bit underwhelming. No one really expects the everstorm not to happen at that point, and the portal is also clearly happening, so it's not that exciting. They weren't even forced to withdraw against an overwhelming force. I assume this is because the Stormform parshendi needed to disappear.

4. Shallan. Her book, but didn't care so much. The ghostbloods thing is interesting, but her past was really what was expected. The surprise (Pattern was her blade back then) doesn't really work for me and is less satisfying than if she had a blade from elsewhere somehow. It doesn't quite ring true for me...

5. Sadeas: I didn't care that much. He was not really a problem in the end and yet a constant bother. Not really fleshed out in his plans and goals I felt, they didn't click for me. Glad it's over at least, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him go.

6. Death: With both Szeth and Jasnah returning, and Shardblades losing a lot of their danger with Kaladin healing his arm, Death has been letting me down this book. Too much resurrection for my taste.

 

 

Some other comments:

Taravangian: Little of him, but fun and we see his hand. Great and looking for more.

Heralds: They're out there, and getting more obvious. Who's betting on the Swordmaster as one? Taln not really there yet, which is ok, keep him for later.

Selabrial: Fun. Loved him and his wife.

Amaram: Pretty happy with how he ended up. The whole him leading the KR was a bit weird, but it never led to anything so that's ok (what was up with that? Did he do anything? Or just wear the cloak for a month or 2?)

Rhysn: Cool interlude! And the Islands, a wow moment! I wish there would've been a bit more of the worldbuilding interludes, but they got a bit sidelined for side plots, and with Ym and Lift prereleased they didn't register much any more.

Jasnah: Was shocked first - then at the end I wish she would've stayed dead. Although there's a chance this is awesome: I'm really hoping this is not just an escape - she actually is dead!! She's now in whatever the Tranquiline Halls or Damnation are, and Hoid has a way there. Might allow her to return, but only at a great effort...

 

My favorite moments:

- The big arena fight. Great, and diverse.

- Kaladin and Adolin bonding. A bit predictable but very well done and enjoyable

- Jasnah's death. Big surprise and well done. And it felt so final, with the dagger hitting the wood. As above, I hope she's in the Halls, or maybe even Damnation.

- Shallan on the boat and working her way to the Plains. She got less interesting once she got there. Exception: Shallan sneaking into Amaram's place - great moment!

- The little Selabrial moments

- Walking Islands interlude, and Lift interlude to a lesser degree - her character is a bit grating for me, but the worldbuilding was great.

- Eshonai before Stormform. After she was a plot device on rails.

 

 

 

 

I agree a lot with you. I felt like after the dueling arena scen Kaladin stagnated totally. Thats why i think the third ideal should have come there not in the end. 

 

Selabrial was one of the best in the book, specially when he was siting there eating Dalinars provision and the misstres was reading a book. That was just a huge laugh for me.

 

What kind of radiant do you think Lopen will be? Im guessing main attribute is Resolut since he has been training to draw storm light everyday since he learned how Kaladin did it

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dru

[Galladon]

I think we don't need to mark spoiler from today on in this board, but anway spoilers.

 

It was a blast, ofcourse Kaladin was still fighting with his stuff. I mean his acceptance in tWoK of his responsibility lead to his attitude, besides ou may change your behavior in a flash and find that it's a good fit (Shallan) but not your attitude. And the stagnating hate, well it's annoying but this is how it must be. He had to fight with that, and I woundn't have had it any other way. 

I almost died as Syl went away, and I think I would have been so pissed if that stayed this way that I think wouldn't have read on after this book... but THEN. I think the climax was very well exectued.

 

Shallan was awesome by the way

[Aminar]

The only issue I had were the resurrections.  But even then, I've been saying from the start, that this is too early in the series to kill off resources.  

Nightblood is an amazing revelation.  The Cosmere is meant to come together into a greater story, things needed to start seeping into the foreground.

The Kaladin complaints are justified, but misguided.  They are, as a monumentally stubborn person, how stubborn people change.  A constant vague need to debate the idea mentally as you continue to squash the idea until finally you figure out and come to terms with the fact you were wrong.  It looks stagnant, but it was fantastic characterization, and had me every scene.  Is this the time he gets through to himself?  Is it?  Nope.  He'll get there.  It is frustrating, but it's supposed to be.  

[bludvein]

My favorite part is where Adolin is just like "I've had enough of your rust" to Sadeas and stabs him the eye. I really didn't care for his character up to that point, but afterwards he earned some respect from me.

 

Lopen being Lopen was awesome. Glad to see he will play a larger part in the future.

 

I don't care for Shallan's character, but the book was still interesting. I'm curious to see if shardplate will be formed the same way as the blade is.

Edited March 4, 2014 by bludvein

[Tortellini]

I don't disagree on the stubborn - Kaladin was, and has always been, naive, idealistic, and very slow to change once burned. In that he's consistent. I don't mind that he takes a while to come around.

 

To me, the problem is rather that it feels that he "unlearned" something that he had already learned in TWoK. It took him a long time to come to the first, and second ideal, and a long time to trust Syl. But by the end of book 1, he had committed to the first 2 ideals, and had learned to trust Syl. Now, the whole "allowing Elhokar to get assassinated" violates all three of those things:

• "Journey before destination." Very clearly, this means that the ends do not justify the means, and it's addressed as such in book 1. If he had this in mind, there's no way he says yes to an assassination just to change politics (bear in mind that Elhokar is not actively evil, just incompetent)
• "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." Definitely this includes someone being plotted against by shardbearers. Especially if, by neglecting his duty, he would leave that person without bodyguards. He's not just going against his ideal as a Windrunner, he's going against his ethics as a soldier, and abandoning his post.
• Syl repeatedly speaks against this, and he usually follows her instincts at the time of book 2, but not in this.

Now I know, Amaram, and Roshone, and they're evil and Elhokar's allowing it, but is that really enough to buy that Kaladin goes against all he learned in book 1, and against things that defined him even before? Remember, when we first meet Kaladin, he is introduced to us helping Cenn - a young and inexperienced, and thus incompetent man in a situation that is too challenging for him...

[Aminar]

Think about the pain Elhokar caused him though.  Elhokar is directly responsible for Tien's death.  It just confirms everything Kal ever felt about lighteyes, and in a spot where he's been betrayed by those he trusted most.  He's been prone to depressive swings since childhood.  This was another one, and depressive swings are a powerful form of unlearning.  Brandon is aware of this, in an episode of Writing Excuses he discusses his wifes own depression.  Kaladin embodies some of that.  Again, that doesn't make it no frustrating, but it's brilliant writing.

[Raevun]

I'm mainly happy that the world has opened up somewhat. Book 1 was very clearly just the Shattered Plains, and while a limited scope was needed to set up the core characters and base magic systems, I'm oh so happy that the stage has widened. With the Ghostbloods fleshed out, the introduction of the Sons of Honor, Taravangian's Diagram posse and the Skybreakers, there are some serious plotlines to go down now. Add on to that we still have the Unmade to learn about (which as far as I can gather are almost like tectonic plate sized weird spren), there is so much more to be excited about in the series than before. 

 

Before this book, the main mysteries were 'where is Urithuru?', 'Does Szeth have an honorblade?' and specific things to do with the Radiants, such as what are the oaths, what are the orders themselves etc. Now, a lot of that has been answered directly, and the main things to wonder about is just how the plot is going to develop, rather than more finicky points. The wait for the next book is going to be even more dire for me than the last time. 

 

As for more specific moments of this book which I love/intrigued me: 

-Elhokar being Dalinar's Tien slapped me in the face, I loved that line. 

-Lopen. Every scene. Also Rock, him too. storm it, all of the bridgemen.

-The bridgemen were glowing when Kaladin arrived? 

-Where are the Listeners who escaped? Are they now Stormform? (Which seems a bit unlikely, given their set-up). Also, how are they going to keep Shen from turning Stormform? 

-Taravangian and his situation is one of the most well designed characters in my opinion.

-Nightblood. Means heralds have been world-hopping. Now I'm going to be eyeing Sanderson's other books for storming Heralds on top of everyone else. I love it. 

-Who is Nazh?

-I middle fingered Sadeas as his brain got skewered. It felt great. 

-Kaladin eating the Chouta and liking it. 

-Rock witnessing Hoid's arrival to the world. Are the mountaintop lakes some form of shardpool?

 

Dislikes:

-The potential seeds of a love-triangle between Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin.

-Neither of the people you killed stayed dead? Really? No side-effects of their deaths either, apparently.

-Too much "Oh it's him I'm so angry I'm finding it hard to contain everything", from seemingly every character. 

Edited March 4, 2014 by Raevun

[Crysanja]

[spoiler]
after finishing the book i felt like the ending was realy rushed and kind of bad.

they are something like 2 weeks at the lost city and what do we get? 20-30 pages?

i think the book was way too short there. guess Brandon run out of pages.

 

- no investigation into the KR

- no Kaladin-Sly confrontation - he nearly "killed" her, did kill her

- there are lots of new potentional windrunners - but we just mention them, using Stormlight, by "accident"

- the death of Sedeas - this just felt cheap if you asked me =(

- without any thoughts or considerations of Shallan, she tells/shows everyone that she has a Spren(before the Oathgate)

- i  dont like thouse "none-pov" chars haveing povs in the big parts - like Araman, Teft, Moash ...  couldnt he put them into some epiloge part?

- Kaladin rushing away, no considerations about opening more Oathgates(hes the only one who could do it quickly(there was one spoilered in Kolinar i think))

 

thouse thing all show me how rushed this ending was. it just feels unfinished.

 

in the middle/end of the book, when Dalinar played sick, i was missing chapters of him badly. he felt kind of forgotten.(parts cut out to make room for the rushed ending.)

 

---

 

im kind of sad that no pov char died at all.

Brandon made thouse huge words - "no one is save", but its like everywhere else.

the heroes are save, nothing can happen to them. they dont even get realy hurt.

loosing a pov char would make room for new ones in the following books. would this be so bad?

 

---

 

however, if you dont look at the ending of this book, it liked it alot, shame i have to wait so long now to get the next one.

i kind of couldnt put the book down until i finished it, that means something too. =)

 

[/spoiler]

[Chessboxin']

Eshonai and the Parshendi. Wow, I mean wow. I think that this book is one of the few fantasy works I could describe as operatic(in the grand tragedy sense of the word).

[Lomeon]

What kind of radiant do you think Lopen will be? Im guessing main attribute is Resolut since he has been training to draw storm light everyday since he learned how Kaladin did it

 

 

From what I can guess, Lopen will not become a Radiant, but he and many others from Bridge 4 will become "squires" of Kaladin, also able to use stormlight, though maybe only for strength and healing. This will be like in Dalinar's vision of the Purelake Thunderclast hunt.

[FeatherWriter]

Welp. Whenever Splintercast Reads starts going live, you can all hear my reactions for yourself firsthand. Woooooo. 

[StormLight_Luc]

Just finished it (ebook version)

Got only two hours of sleep, then ten hours of work...

Result; Brandon just melted my brain

Loved it, loved the progression of the characters, all of them, because they are human, they have flaws, they stumble, fail and suffer and I suffer with them.

Officialy shippin' Syl&Kaladin here.

Will make a slower reading when my hardcovers reach me...

[HydrogenAlpha]

Officialy shippin' Syl&Kaladin here.

Not that I don't like it, but it's pretty hard to ship people if they can't touch each other.

[Swimmingly]

Not that I don't like it, but it's pretty hard to ship people if they can't touch each other.

But she can...

I mean she turns into a weapon to do it.

But she can.

[Terra of Roshar]

-Nightblood

-Shallan and Kaladin

-Kaladin can fly

-Pattern

-Poor, poor Eshonai

-The only thing I want in life is for someone to steal Taln back and give him a hug. The man needs a hug.

-I was so mad at Kaladin when Syl left. SO. F*CKING MAD. 

-I was really worried about Jasnah from speculation about chapter 7, but once I actually read it, i knew she was fine and proceeded to    spend the rest of the book worrying about more important things.

-I can no longer keep track of the many secret societies and my feelings towards them. I'll need to reread to sort it out...

-Did I mention that SZETH HAS NIGHTBLOOD?!?!?! (seriously. this is a big deal. possibly the biggest deal in the whole book)

 

Also, picking out all the various Glimpses was very amusing.

[Aniki]

Not that I don't like it, but it's pretty hard to ship people if they can't touch each other.

I remember a line saying she poked him on the neck

Edited March 4, 2014 by Endymion

[TheKraken]

I thought "Wow!"

 

There's just so freaking much on this book. I'm immediately starting a reread.

[Chaos]

So did you guys pick up that Vasher is in the book?

[RShara]

I'm going for WOW!!!!!!!!!!

then

This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules

then WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edit:  Also

NIGHTBLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 5, 2014 by RShara

[TheKraken]

So did you guys pick up that Vasher is in the book?

That one was easy