Krios Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) My theory is that Ambition is the most dangerous shard and will eventually reform. But lets first examine what we know about Ambition and Shards in general. Shard come from the shattering of Adonalsium, which seems to have been a last ditch effort. The people who did it seemed really scared and that is why they did such an extreme thing as breaking a god. We know that a vessel is slowly taken over by the intent of its shard. What we know about Ambition: She was killed by Odium shortly after the Shattering of Adonalsium and atleast some shards think, that it is for the better. Now she is splintered. Ambition is defined as "an earnest desire for some type of achievement or distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth, and the willingness to strive for its attainment" (dictionary). So where can you go when you are already a shard of a god and extremely powerful. The only logical thing is that Ambition would at some point have tried to accumulate all the shards power and to recreate the power of Adonalsium. ( And then perhaps try to take on his opposing force, which could have catastrophic consequences. ) Which the vessels are strictly opposed too. Not only did the shatter Adonalsium in the first place, they even made a pact to settle different planets. I know that merging shards powers would result in a changed intent, but that should take an equally long time as the take over of the original intent. What makes her more dangerous than Odium is, that Rayse doesnt want to accumulate the other shards powers, he just wants to destroy them. But Ambition is splintered. And here the second letter from Oathbringer comes into play. Im just going to quote it here for ease. Cephandrius, bearer of the First Gem, You must know better than to approach us by relying upon presumption of past relationship. You have spoken to one who cannot respond. We, instead, will take your communication to us – though we know not how you located us upon this world. We are indeed intrigued, for we thought it well hidden. Insignificant among our many realms. As the waves of the sea must continue to surge, so must our will continue resolute. Alone. Did you expect anything else from us? We need not suffer the interference of another. Rayse is contained, and we care not for his prison. Indeed, we admire his initiative. Perhaps if you had approached the correct one of us with your plea, it would have found favorable audience. But we stand in the sea, pleased with our domains. Leave us alone. We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there. She is young yet, and--as a precaution--she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you. This is all we will say at this time. If you wish more, seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created. Only in this will you earn our respect. So it is written by somethingwith multiple pieces ( one who cannot responed, we will take your communication to us ). The begings admire Rayses initiative, which sounds very similar to Ambition and they say, that Hoid can earn their respect through overcoming tests, which also sounds like something ambitious to undertake. Obvoiusly I believe that the splinters of Ambition are the authors of this letter. But the most interesting parts are: "A new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest" "As the waves of the seas must continue to surge, so must our will continue resolute. Alone." I think the splinters of Ambition are trying to reform the shard of Ambition with this new avatar on Obrodai and then become the only being (will) in existence. The last part is a bit out there, but I thought i would mention it. So how could Ambition reform from her splinters ( The both the original vessel of Ambition and the new avatar are female. )? I think it will probably be a mini version of Odiums fight against the over shards with one splinter of Ambition fighting the other, merging with it, until only one remains, which will merge with the avatar and become the new Shard of Ambition. I would go so far as predicting, that Ambition 2.0 will not need to overcome the vessels psyche as they specifically created her for that purpose and seem to be able to influence her. ( dislike of Hoid ) TL,DR Ambition will reform on Obrodai and cause major trouble in the cosmere. What do you think about this theory? Am I onto something or is this complete garbage? Edited December 18, 2017 by Krios 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Unfortunately we have a soon to be listed in Arcanum WoB that confirms the second letter was written by Autonomy. Well written and thought out post though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krios Posted December 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 damnation it. I mean know that I know, I can see it. But I still get more of a Ambition than Autonomy wibe. Well Brandon is wrtitung this, which is definitley for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmereAvair Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 Keep in mind Ambition was not splintered but in fact wounded, and we do not know of what happened to the shard after that. My theory still stands that Ambulation being wounded in Threndry and Taln's scar both having red stars is connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krios Posted December 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 I mainly based my theory on the letter and the coppermind. And there it says that Ambition was killed and splintered after fleeing the Threnodite system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDeval Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Also, you tangentially referred to Adonalsiums opposing force, which Brandon said was just people making Adonalsium into a judaeo Christian style god with an opposite, but a group of people counts as a force, so even though there was an opposing force it probably wasn't anywhere near the same power level or the same type of thing as Adonalsium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/19/2017 at 10:22 AM, CosmereAvair said: Keep in mind Ambition was not splintered but in fact wounded, and we do not know of what happened to the shard after that. My theory still stands that Ambulation being wounded in Threndry and Taln's scar both having red stars is connected. The AU essay for Threnody tells us that ambition was only wounded in that system and it's power washed over the planet. It goes on to say though, that the final blow occurred elsewhere. Ambition was shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Reasons to make us think Ambition has a chance of returning: 1. Odium wasn't able to kill Ambition outright. Instead, Odium went to Sel and killed Dominion and Devotion. 2. Ambition had the opportunity to see other shards get shattered. Ambition would have known a few things about shattering, and could have made a plan. 3. Ambition is a shard that would be willing to make an unlikely plan, and risk it all. Letting herself die in order to reform uninjured? Sure! 4. It seems odd that Ambition managed to hide, and then shattered somewhere else. Ambition sure did have a long time too make a plan. 5. Threnody is invested by ghosts that don't fully die. Could this be ambition tinkering with undeath? Ambition left a big imprint, and the timeline gives her enough time AND information to make a plan. META REASON: Few stories keep the same villain for an entire arc. It makes literary sense for Odium to be the #2 big bag, and for someone like Ambition to be way more nefarious. Edited January 3, 2018 by teknopathetic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Minor nitpick @teknopathetic, #1, Odium offed D&D before Ambition/Threnody happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, John203 said: Minor nitpick @teknopathetic, #1, Odium offed D&D before Ambition/Threnody happened. Wasn't Ambition wounded near Threnody, and then fled? Odium couldn't find Ambition, so he went after Sel? The Sel shards die, and then Ambition is shattered at some point after the death of Dominion and Devotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, teknopathetic said: Wasn't Ambition wounded near Threnody, and then fled? Odium couldn't find Ambition, so he went after Sel? The Sel shards die, and then Ambition is shattered at some point after the death of Dominion and Devotion? No, the essay just said that Ambition was wounded near Threnody and ultimately died later. Regardless, the timeline has been stated that he went to Sel first, then found Ambition and splintered her. Quote Argent Some of the few Shards Rayse Splintered included Ambtion, I believe, Dominion, and Devotion. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent And those were all way back, in the history. So, we know that the Shards' personalities overrides the Vessel's personality over time? Brandon Sanderson Strongly influence, and depending on the individual, override. Argent Okay. So did Rayse choose those Shards because-- Brandon Sanderson He went after Ambition first, but didn't find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel? Like did he hate the person? Brandon Sanderson In this case it was the Shard, primarily, that drove him-- Argent Oh, he was maybe afraid the Shard would grow too powerful and take over-- Brandon Sanderson He was afraid that this Shard that would rival him. And so he's like "This one is number one on the hit list. We're taking down Ambition." But then he got trapped in the Rosharan system. [Source] Quote "THE Threnodite system is a site warped by an ancient conflict. Long ago, soon after the Shattering, Odium clashed with (and mortally wounded) the Shard Ambition here. Ambition would later be Splintered, though that final act took place in a different location." - Threnody Essay Keep in mind that we don't actually know whether Ambition successfully fled from Odium, only that the splintering was elsewhere. Edited January 3, 2018 by Spoolofwhool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmereAvair Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 I am curious about how to even wound a shard, does wounding involve wore harming the shard holder? Spoiler As an example what Preservation did to himself to stop Ruin And when Brandon refers to Ambition do you think he is referring to the shard or the shard bearer or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, CosmereAvair said: And when Brandon refers to Ambition do you think he is referring to the shard or the shard bearer or both? What quote are you referring to? Both of the quotes @Spoolofwhool included specify that they are discussing Ambition the Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 hours ago, CosmereAvair said: I am curious about how to even wound a shard, does wounding involve wore harming the shard holder? Reveal hidden contents As an example what Preservation did to himself to stop Ruin And when Brandon refers to Ambition do you think he is referring to the shard or the shard bearer or both? When a Vessel hold a Shard, their body is disincorporated and subsumed into the Shard. They have no physical body until they either choose to relinquish the power, or they are forcibly separated, which in the only examples we've seen involved the Vessels deaths. It appears as though it can mean either, but I the case of Ambition, chunks of power were ripped away and washed over the world of Threnody, so it seems obvious that the Shard itself was damaged, and not just the Vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) On 1/3/2018 at 0:08 PM, CosmereAvair said: I am curious about how to even wound a shard? Have these two things, and make your assumptions: Quote QUESTION: The next question I have is does Odium have to recover after Splintering a Shard? BRANDON:It is a difficult process that is very taxing. Lance Alvein You've said that "The Pits of Hathsin were crafted by Preservation as a place to hide the chunk of Ruin's body that he had stolen away." How does one Shard steal a portion of another Shard and create a Physical outlet for it, like the Pits were for Ruin's power? BRANDON SANDERSON (paraphrased)It has to do with clash between the two shards power. When pressed, he then said that it was "kind of" like splintering. Edited January 6, 2018 by The One Who Connects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadHancho Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Uli Da is the confirmed vessel of Ambition. I bring this is up because Endowment mentions in her portion of the letter that she/he/it was "dangerous from the beginning" as justification for Odium's going after the shard. I believe that either this happens to be because either the nature of it's intent, or the shard's original race. We don't yet know which shard(s) have a race other than human, but we know at least one is different in that regard. Keep in mind that both or neither of these things could be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Uli Da is confirmed as a Sho Del from Yolen. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314-salt-lake-city-signing/#e8933 Quote Chaos [PENDING REVIEW] Is Uli Da a Sho Del? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 hours ago, RShara said: Uli Da is confirmed as a Sho Del from Yolen. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314-salt-lake-city-signing/#e8933 Yay. Not on Coppermind. What do we know about Sho Del? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Leyrann said: Yay. Not on Coppermind. What do we know about Sho Del? Not much, and that mostly from the Dragonsteel chapters that have been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 5:39 PM, TheHeadHancho said: I believe that either this happens to be because either the nature of it's intent, or the shard's original race. It's the Intent. Quote Brandon Sanderson He went after Ambition first, but didn't find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel? Like did he hate the person? Brandon Sanderson In this case it was the Shard, primarily, that drove him-- Argent Oh, he was maybe afraid the Shard would grow too powerful and take over-- Brandon Sanderson He was afraid that this Shard that would rival him. And so he's like "This one is number one on the hit list. We're taking down Ambition." But then he got trapped in the Rosharan system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 2.1.2018 at 10:47 PM, teknopathetic said: Ambition left a big imprint, and the timeline gives her enough time AND information to make a plan. Right, and I think that the Ghostbloods are part of that plan, or, at least, have collected a splinter of Ambition at some point, just like they are currently trying to get a hold of Sja-Anat. Mraize's utterings, such as: "The old fool sows chaos, but does not reach for the power offered by opportunity." or " “Morality is an axis that doesn't interest us,” Mraize said calmly. “Only loyalty and power are relevant" seem to very much agree with Ambition's intent. My current theory re: the end of the Stormlight Archive is that Odium will escape Rosharan system... but in severely weakened/mortally wounded condition and that another Shard will pick up it's power and combine their Shards and Intents + one or 2 more to form the ultimate Cosmere big bad. This could be reformed Ambition, or it could be that as yet unknown Shard will incorporate both (splinters of?) Ambition and Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts