turklemuffink Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 This may be a stretch but, what if the bondsmith spren are somehow related to the moons? Here's what I'm thinking: Roshar has three moons: one big blue one (Nomon) personified as male in Wit's tale, one green, (Mishim) personified as a female, and one violet (Salas), who is female. (In Wit's story at least- I know other cultures think of them differently). And in all cultures they are thought of as siblings. So, could Nomon= The Stormfather, Mishim=The Nightwatcher, and Salas=The Sibling? 1. Foreshadowing in OB: In OB the inside cover art is of Ishar, the founder of the bondsmiths, and prominently, right behind him are the three moons! That seems a bit... interesting considering that there can only be 3 bondsmiths, and those are the only things that appear in 3s in that image. Looking at the other inside cover art, they all show Heralds surrounded by things that are related to their order. Maybe there's a big clue in plain sight? (Or too obvious idk). Also the moons got brought up a LOT more in OB than in the other books, which is interesting since it's Dalinor's book in which we learn a lot about bondsmiths. 2. Stormfather and Nomon: Moons can have a huge impact on weather and tides which is something that was discussed in a previous thread. It's possible that the moons themselves are causing the storms and since Nomon is the biggest moon, perhaps he is the main cause of them? Storm father? Also, in Wit's story, Tsa gets pregnant by Nomon and has a little blue baby which is kind of a connection to "father", albeit a bit fanciful. Interestingly, that story happens in Natanatan which is where the storms hit first. Lastly, the Stormfather refers to the other spren as his siblings. What other trio is thought of as three siblings? (The moons) (At this point I will acknowledge that this is a theory in progress since the Stormfather does refer to himself as the spren of the storm, not the moon.) 3. Mishim and the Nightwatcher: The obvious connection is that Mishim is green so that reeks of cultivation, (haha) BUT if I'm not mistaken, Mishim is the third moon to rise. Perhaps "Nightwatcher" is related to her watching over the inhabitants of Roshar in the quietest and darkest part of night? It's also kind of telling that you can only visit the Nightwatcher at night, when the moons are in the sky. Not exactly water-tight but there might be something related in there. AND in Wit's story she's crafty and tricky which definitely fits the Nightwatcher. 4. Salas and The Sibling: There's a lot of talk of whether one of the bindsmith "godspren" is related to Odium or not. Some say perhaps whatever The Sibling is was here before Odium came, some say she must be connected to Odium the way that the Nightwatcher and Stormfather are connected to Honor and Cultivation. The same thing is said about the moons- were they all there before or are they connected to the shards? So... what if the godspren and the moons are the same thing? The violet light of the moon and the voidlight leads many to pair Salas with Odium, and so why not with his godspren? 5. Odium-spren and bondsmiths: One of the biggest questions about the Odium godspren, though, is why would there be an Odium bondsmith spren that would be working against him? Here's another stretch: The godsprens seem to have their own personalities so is it possible that we have a rebel spren on our hands? Presumably Odium was the old god of humanity, so if there was an Odium spren, she was humanity's godspren. Maybe she cared enough to side with the humans and went against Odium's wishes when they went to Roshar. Maybe she helped convince Honor and Cultivation that the humans were worth saving and was on their side from the start? Who is to say a new moon didn't just appear in the sky when the humans came in order to talk with the other two? 6. Bind spren NOT related to Odium: Above I mentioned an alternative to the three godspren theory. In a way, if this were the case it would strengthen the moon theory. If the spren are something inherently part of Roshar and they have nothing to do with Odium/were there before his arrival, the only big group that exists in threes outside the gods are the moons. This also brings me back to the moons and the bondsmith spren being referred to as siblings. Why would an Odium spren be the Stormfather's sibling? In my opinion, the godspren theory seems a little too obvious and there are some logical leaps and assumptions that need to be made if it were true. I think the three bondsmith spren have always been a part of Roshar. So what's with the violet light and moon? Coincidence? I doubt it. What if Salas has always provided a type of stormlight, (now called void light)? It seems to be the light and storm that most affect the parshmen, who are the natives to the land. Maybe Odium simply exploited or corrupted something that was already there. Actually, I haven't been able to shake something that one of the Parshendi (Eshonai I think, maybe Venli?) said in WoR: they said something about "This direction feels right to me, all the other storms seemed wrong" when talking about the everstorm (also something about the map looks like there was probably once a storm that way- look at the Reshi Isles). Maybe the violet is associated with something that wasn't originally nefarious. ANYWAY that's a lot of theorizing about different topics and I'm fairly new to the boards so feel free to rip this apart. I don't have a lot of evidence, but for some reason I have a feeling the moons are more important than we think. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Some relevant WoBs: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1654 Quote Questioner Roshar has three moons that orbit it, and I notice that these orbits somewhat collide. I was wondering if the moons have anything to do with... Brandon Sanderson The moons are a little bit of a hint, but it’s not about what you’re thinking. They are not in a stable orbit on astronomical terms. They’ll last tens of thousands of years before they degrade. But it is a little bit of a hint of things. The fact that Roshar has three moons in a very specific orbit is a hint about things. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8788 Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Back to Stormlight. Is there significance to the color of moons? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, there is a significance to the colors of the moons in Stormlight, but it is not a major player in theories. There is a significance, but it's not, like, one of these things that you're going to read book seven and be like "The colors of the moons! It was there all along!" Sometimes, I put stuff like that in, right? It's not like that. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/219-words-of-radiance-philadelphia-signing/#e7970 Quote Leiyan Do the moons relate to the Highstorms at all? Brandon Sanderson The moons...at all? Sure! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Interesting topic! Nice work with the quotes, Ookla. My main issue with the theory that the moons are associated with the bondsmiths is that I find more associations with the Shards. Since I consider the bondsmiths to be primarily associated with Honor and secondarily connected to Cultivation, then I run into the same issues as the OP with an Odious bondsmith. The coloring of the moons is almost too obvious. Nomon seems associated with Honor by color and "propriety" in the story. Green goes with Cultivation and purple seems like the voidlight even if Odium's main color seems to be gold. The moons being artificially placed fits with the coloring as having a Shard related purpose. Why do effectively disembodied beings need astral objects? The linked thread seems interesting and more reasonable than the "gods" needing bases. An adventure with Kaladin flying to Nomon to visit Honor's secret base might be fun, but doesn't seem reasonable, given how the Shards work. I am intrigued by the story. Natanatan coloring relating to Nomon and, by implication, Honor makes me wonder about there being a germ of truth to it. This in turn, makes me curious about why the Natanatans were changed. The fate of Stormseat seems to fit how bad things happen to those associated with Honor. But this seems like the subject of another thread, so I'll stop now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ookla the Leyspren said: Some relevant WoBs: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1654 Questioner Roshar has three moons that orbit it, and I notice that these orbits somewhat collide. I was wondering if the moons have anything to do with... Brandon Sanderson The moons are a little bit of a hint, but it’s not about what you’re thinking. They are not in a stable orbit on astronomical terms. They’ll last tens of thousands of years before they degrade. But it is a little bit of a hint of things. The fact that Roshar has three moons in a very specific orbit is a hint about things. It has to relate to the three shards in the system. This WoB makes me think of several Squaresoft RPGs from the 90's like Final Fantasy 4, Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger where powerful beings traveled to a planet via a moon or meteor. We don't know how Shards travel the Cosmere and I've never given it much thought. Non-shard characters travel to different shard planets using the Shardpools (perpendicularities) in Shadesmar, but the Shards have to get to the planets first and invest enough in a planet for a shardpool to form in order for other characters to piggyback. Maybe these moons are needed (or one option) for shards to travel through the space in the Cosmere. Maybe in order for Shards to move their power through the void of space in the physical realm they have to invest that power in an object big enough to contain it and hurl it through space (somehow ...). Then the Shard moon get into the system it wants and it can hop the relatively short distance to a planet. This is almost all speculation. The three Shards could have just created a moon each around Roshar when they arrived. Edited December 18, 2017 by Child of Hodor Added Quote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Child of Hodor said: It has to relate to the three shards in the system. This WoB makes me think of several Squaresoft RPGs from the 90's like Final Fantasy 4, Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger where powerful beings traveled to a planet via a moon or meteor. We don't know how Shards travel the Cosmere and I've never given it much thought. Non-shard characters travel to different shard planets using the Shardpools (perpendicularities) in Shadesmar, but the Shards have to get to the planets first and invest enough in a planet for a shardpool to form in order for other characters to piggyback. Maybe these moons are needed (or one option) for shards to travel through the space in the Cosmere. Maybe in order for Shards to move their power through the void of space in the physical realm they have to invest that power in an object big enough to contain it and hurl it through space (somehow ...). Then the Shard moon get into the system it wants and it can hop the relatively short distance to a planet. This is almost all speculation. The three Shards could have just created a moon each around Roshar when they arrived. According to WoB, Odium was on Braize at the time of Way of Kings (though I assume he is now on Roshar for the Desolation), which seems to imply that no moon is needed to travel from planet to planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Ookla the Leyspren said: According to WoB, Odium was on Braize at the time of Way of Kings (though I assume he is now on Roshar for the Desolation), which seems to imply that no moon is needed to travel from planet to planet. True! I was thinking more of getting between the systems in the Cosmere. Another problem is why would Odium park it in Roshar's orbit if he invested in Braize and at least influenced events on Ashyn? Plus, we also see Odium get from Braize to Roshar via the Everstorm. His Fused say he rides the storm like "the enemy" (Honor) used to and he doesn't start appearing directly to characters until after the Everstorm comes. And that's with him still being "shackled" as he tells Dalinar. So, they clearly can get between planets within a system without it. Maybe once a shard invests some power in a planet it doesn't need the moon to get back to it. When Odium initially arrived in the system he might have invested a little bit in Ashyn, then followed the humans from Ashyn to Roshar. Then Cultivation and Honor somehow kicked him (or tricked him) to Braize and trapped him there, but he was still able to get to back to Roshar because he already had the Unmade there and eventually enough Voidspren got there to summon the Everstorm. That's a lot of maybes could be totally off base . I'm basing it mostly on a hunch. It's just that the slowly decaying orbit strikes me as the Shards doing a not so great parking job. Maybe Honor and Cultivation parked in stable orbits and Odium came in with his own moon, did lousy job parking it and threw the moon orbits off and they are slowly decaying. Like Odium double-parked because he wasn't planning on staying long, but then he got stuck. Honor is dead, Odium is shackled and Cultivation has invested a lot in Roshar while trying to remain "hidden" from Odium as Odium puts it to Dalinar. None of them are in a position to fix the orbits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storms! Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Quote Like Odium double-parked because he wasn't planning on staying long, but then he got stuck. I'm thinking more like he double parked just to make the other two mad! In all seriousness though, I see Odium's moon as being more like his flag. Like he planted his banner to announce his arrival, then placed it in a conflicting orbit to show he wasn't there to cooperate. In a fight between gods, you need something a little more dramatic than some cloth on a pole to announce your arrival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furry-And-Lovable-Grover Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) This is a little off topic, but it was inspired by the original topic: Brandon said that Odium, Honor, and Cultivation are the three shards in residence on Roshar. THIS WoB says that all investiture in the Cosmere is related to one shard or another, whether that shard is in residence on that world or not. There is (I think) yet another WoB somewhere that I can't find just now that says that Rayse justifies his attacks other shards in part because he feels like they are violating whatever agreement was reached at the Shattering. Rayse's true motivation may be related to this if such a WoB exists, or he may just be trying to prevent another 'Harmony' Investiture from Honor and Cultivation are evident in the way that the surges on Roshar are manipulated via spren/fabrials etc. Could it be possible that the investiture native to Roshar belonged to none of the three shards in residence, and that Honor and Cultivation's presence and maybe displacement of the native investiture is part of what drew Odium. This could mean that there was only one moon originally, and that the other two were placed later, and that it was left over from the native investiture involved in the Rosharan system, and still allow a place for the moon to represent the sibling, a leftover of that native investiture. Edited December 21, 2017 by Jhardin Spelling\Rayse motivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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