[OB] The future for Rock

[bdoble97]

Rock is one of my favorite members of bridge fourhim  finally reuniting with his family was very exciting and heartwarming to read. His wife seemed very confused in my opinion that he had become just a cook. With his vow of not fighting what will happen to him after he picked up The Shard bow to save Kaladin life religion and honor seems to be extremely important to rock I really hope he does not go into a deep depression due to the fact that he broke his vow of not fighting even though it was for a just cause. Also the brief description of his wife using the horneater bow and arrow makes her sound like she's a badass Warrior and would love to learn more about her and the whole horneater culture a  Army of horneaters would be quite the impressive force in my opinion. 

[Blazenella]

Also Kaladin briefly mentions that Rock shouldn't be able to pull the shardbow. They're made for people in Shardplate, and are made of steel with a cable string. Coming from an archer this would be ridiculously hard to pull, seeing as your bending steel. So how did Rock do it without Plate? Kaladin says that Stormlight doesn't increase strength.

[DocHoliday]

 

Just now, Ookla the Variable said:

Also Kaladin briefly mentions that Rock shouldn't be able to pull the shardbow. They're made for people in Shardplate, and are made of steel with a cable string. Coming from an archer this would be ridiculously hard to pull, seeing as your bending steel. So how did Rock do it without Plate? Kaladin says that Stormlight doesn't increase strength.

Stormlight does increase strength. It does not grant skill.

By the end of OB I'm pretty sure Rock has bonded a spren, which might eventually grant him a Shardblade. As we gathered from Rocks wife (can't remember her name), Rock is the eldest living child of his parents. By their customs he's now Nuatoma, and IMO is being set up by Brandon to unite the Horneaters, possibly clearing up the Perpendicularity on Shadesmar.

[aemetha]

Also, Rock is far from the average bowman in terms of strength to begin with. He may not be able to draw a shardbow unaided, but he'd certainly be much closer to being able to than others, and so would require less additional aid. A little stormlight instead of the plate normally required.

[bdoble97]

All great points I forgot what the bow was actually made of. Do we know how large rock is like height weight I know he's bigger than most everybody right. 

8 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

 

Stormlight does increase strength. It does not grant skill.

By the end of OB I'm pretty sure Rock has bonded a spren, which might eventually grant him a Shardblade. As we gathered from Rocks wife (can't remember her name), Rock is the eldest living child of his parents. By their customs he's now Nuatoma, and IMO is being set up by Brandon to unite the Horneaters, possibly clearing up the Perpendicularity on Shadesmar.

From the very get-go a way of Kings I've been hoping that Rock was some type of horneater royalty. I donylt k ow what Nuatoma means does anyone else know what that word means

[Govir]

1 hour ago, bdoble97 said:

Nuatoma

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nuatoma

Basically Horneater Brightlords.

Edit: From this explanation I'm picturing something like Feudalism (given that I have no formal understanding of Feudalism. I only know what I've seen in fiction). Specifically, Japanese feudalism, and clan based leadership. (Which I guess is basically what the 10 High princedoms of Alethkar are too)

Edited December 11, 2017 by Govir

[bdoble97]

12 minutes ago, Govir said:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nuatoma

Basically Horneater Brightlords.

Edit: From this explanation I'm picturing something like Feudalism (given that I have no formal understanding of Feudalism. I only know what I've seen in fiction). Specifically, Japanese feudalism, and clan based leadership. (Which I guess is basically what the 10 High princedoms of Alethkar are too)

Thank you

[Toaster Retribution]

Since Rock is a side-character, I expect him to do a Breeze, and pull out of his depression during the time-jump between book 3 and 4.

[bdoble97]

4 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Since Rock is a side-character, I expect him to do a Breeze, and pull out of his depression during the time-jump between book 3 and 4.

I don't know if I agree with that I liked how Sandersons  had the viewpoint chapters from bridge for.  He could expand on Rock in those chapters especially if he's going to in the future  books help unified the horneaters. But that's obviously all speculations

[StormingTexan]

2 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

 

Stormlight does increase strength. It does not grant skill.

Not sure if it is enough though to draw the Shardbow at least Kaladin doesn't think so. 

Quote

 

Kaladin glanced toward Rock, who stood over Amaram’s body, looking down, the enormous bow held limply in one hand. How had he drawn it? Stormlight granted great endurance, but it didn’t vastly improve strength.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1189). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

[bdoble97]

9 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Not sure if it is enough though to draw the Shardbow at least Kaladin doesn't think so. 

 

So the quote says it doesn't vastly increase strength so it's slightly increase strength  so Rocks probably already pretty strong but we never see him show off his strength really cuz only thing he's been doing is cooking stews and flatbreads does it show that Kaladin   has ever met or interacted with any other or horneaters other than Rock maybe he doesn't realize how strong they naturally are

[NotBurtReynolds]

I believe that he is depressed at breaking his vow, but I think what he is feeling most is resignation. I've actually been working on my own Rock theory, but this thread'll do just fine for some Rock-ramblin'

Rock is so crushed because of his act of violence, but more so because of the consequences of what he has done...

All hail King Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor

So about Nuatoma's..We know they're clan leaders and that there is at least 1 per peak. I think that their is one per peak..One dominant clan, that is. And that is Rock's family. So here's the confusing stuff(for me anyways):

1st and 2nd sons= food providers

3rd Son= Craftman

4th son and on= Soldiers

So, we have Rock the 4th son go along with Kef'ha, his brother and Nuatoma. But which brother is Kef'ha? It has to be an older brother or it wouldn't have moved Rock up a spot. But how can sons who are the food-providers/craftsmen also be Nuatoma? That part doesn't make sense to me yet, but we do know that Horneater lore says the first Nuatoma to obtains a Shardblade wil become king of the Horneaters and unite the Peaks. Rock has won himself a Shardblade after the Amaram arrow-face maneuver.  So I think Rock's depression/sadness is driven by all of the following

1. I have used a weapon in violence, breaking my vow.

2. I am the first Horneater to win Shards

3. Oh crap, I think I'm King now

52 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Since Rock is a side-character, I expect him to do a Breeze, and pull out of his depression during the time-jump between book 3 and 4.

See, I think that OB was letting us know that Rock is more of a major character. He is now (possibly/at least in the discussion)King of an area that seems to be super-important to the larger story, especially I think for book 4, given the following:

• It's (likely)home to Cultivation's perpendicularity which is likely under assault by an UnMade, given the information we get in Shademar about it being a no-go zone, and this from Rock's wife

  Quote

  Very well. Lunamor, I have stories too. The Peaks, our home...something is wrong. Very wrong.

  Sounds to me like there be an UnMade up in thar peaks

• The Horneaters are a mixed race that can possibly hear Listener Rhythms and have a relationship with spren that is unique on Roshar(as far as we know so far)

I think book 4 is going to be a whole lot of Horneater because I think Rock will believe himself forced to go home given the Shard-situation he now has..Especially if you believe there is something 'extra special' to Rock's particular bloodline and that he is now their Nuatoma...with Shards. And I'm sure once notes are compared with Shallan about perpendicularity 'wrongness', that going to the Peaks on an UnMade hunt, is going to be a thing..At least I hope so , because I think once we get to the Peaks narratively, we are going to get an large info-dump about spren and Cultivation..But maybe thats just me

 

[shawnhargreaves]

38 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Not sure if it is enough though to draw the Shardbow at least Kaladin doesn't think so.

Specifically, Kaladin thinks "Stormlight granted great endurance, but it didn’t vastly improve strength".  But Kaladin's knowledge of how Stormlight works comes from personal experience.  In other words, he knows how it works for Windrunners.   What if Rock is on the way to bonding some other kind of spren?  (eg. Stoneward?)

[NotBurtReynolds]

Quote

Kaladin glanced toward Rock, who stood over Amaram’s body, looking down, the enormous bow held limply in one hand. How had he drawn it? Stormlight granted great endurance, but it didn’t vastly improve strength.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1189). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So, if Stormlight doesn't vastly improve strength then I think Rock being able to shoot it accurately, twice, can only be explained by so many things:

1. Rock is not just strong, or unnaturally strong;  he is the strongest man on Roshar. I find this hard to believe.

2. Rock is aided by something or someone unknown and unseen.

Now, I think it has to be #2 but what is he aided by? I don't think he's bonded an honorspren, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is(and has been since we've seen him) already bonded to an unknown spren. But I actually think it is less of a 'traditional' bond but more of a symbiotic relationship that Horneaters have with spren, a la' greatshells, Ryshadiums, and the like that grants extra strength and other abilities. Maybe it's all Horneaters,  or maybe Rock's bloodline makes him extra special(I'm inclined to the latter) but I think Rock has a deeper relationship with spren, then he wants to admit. Not because he's unnaturally secretive, but because if true, it's likely one of the great secrets of Horneaters..You know? The one you don't tell anyone. Ever.  I think spren-symbiosis could go a long way towards explaining the weird 'spren-things' around Rock. And Rock is certainly a man of secrets:

Quote

She walked the children across the bridge.  He watched, and was glad to hear Unkalaki again, a proper language. Glad that the other men did not speak it.  For if they did, they might have picked out the lies that he had told them.

I think the lies he has been telling them, is everything he's ever told them about spren and his abilities with them. I can't wait to my next reread so I can go through Rock's parts, looking for lies

[StormingTexan]

39 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

So the quote says it doesn't vastly increase strength so it's slightly increase strength  so Rocks probably already pretty strong but we never see him show off his strength really cuz only thing he's been doing is cooking stews and flatbreads does it show that Kaladin   has ever met or interacted with any other or horneaters other than Rock maybe he doesn't realize how strong they naturally are

 

I think he has an idea. This is from Kaladin's POV

Quote

 

Rock was approaching; the large, tan-skinned Horneater carried an oblong stone that would have been too large for most of the bridgemen to handle alone.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 339). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

[NotBurtReynolds]

Quote

Rock was approaching; the large, tan-skinned Horneater carried an oblong stone that would have been too large for most of the bridgemen to handle alone.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 339). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

I think passages linking Rock to unusual strength, were just Sanderson red-herrings.. He kept leading us to believe that being strong was natural for a Horneater. He showed us feats of strength(like picking up a giant rock) not possible by "normal" folk, but they weren't "impossible" feats...Horneaters may be unusually strong compared to other Rosharns, but I find it hard to believe that Horneaters are so strong that they can accurately use a weapon that is designed for, and has only ever been used by, someone wearing magical(likely spren-aided) armor. If the answer is "Horneaters are just really strong", I'm probably going to be disappointed.

Edited December 11, 2017 by NotBurtReynolds

[bdoble97]

29 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

I believe that he is depressed at breaking his vow, but I think what he is feeling most is resignation. I've actually been working on my own Rock theory, but this thread'll do just fine for some Rock-ramblin'

Rock is so crushed because of his act of violence, but more so because of the consequences of what he has done...

All hail King Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor

So about Nuatoma's..We know they're clan leaders and that there is at least 1 per peak. I think that their is one per peak..One dominant clan, that is. And that is Rock's family. So here's the confusing stuff(for me anyways):

1st and 2nd sons= food providers

3rd Son= Craftman

4th son and on= Soldiers

So, we have Rock the 4th son go along with Kef'ha, his brother and Nuatoma. But which brother is Kef'ha? It has to be an older brother or it wouldn't have moved Rock up a spot. But how can sons who are the food-providers/craftsmen also be Nuatoma? That part doesn't make sense to me yet, but we do know that Horneater lore says the first Nuatoma to obtains a Shardblade wil become king of the Horneaters and unite the Peaks. Rock has won himself a Shardblade after the Amaram arrow-face maneuver.  So I think Rock's depression/sadness is driven by all of the following

1. I have used a weapon in violence, breaking my vow.

2. I am the first Horneater to win Shards

3. Oh crap, I think I'm King now

See, I think that OB was letting us know that Rock is more of a major character. He is now (possibly/at least in the discussion)King of an area that seems to be super-important to the larger story, especially I think for book 4, given the following:

• It's (likely)home to Cultivation's perpendicularity which is likely under assault by an UnMade, given the information we get in Shademar about it being a no-go zone, and this from Rock's wife

  Sounds to me like there be an UnMade up in thar peaks

• The Horneaters are a mixed race that can possibly hear Listener Rhythms and have a relationship with spren that is unique on Roshar(as far as we know so far)

I think book 4 is going to be a whole lot of Horneater because I think Rock will believe himself forced to go home given the Shard-situation he now has..Especially if you believe there is something 'extra special' to Rock's particular bloodline and that he is now their Nuatoma...with Shards. And I'm sure once notes are compared with Shallan about perpendicularity 'wrongness', that going to the Peaks on an UnMade hunt, is going to be a thing..At least I hope so , because I think once we get to the Peaks narratively, we are going to get an large info-dump about spren and Cultivation..But maybe thats just me

 

Everything you said about Rock becoming the king of the horneaters and fighting a unmade on the Peaks and it being home of cultivation is so exciting to me I hope this happens ill be disappointed if it doesn't. Hahahah 

 

7 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

 

I think he has an idea. This is from Kaladin's POV

 

You can't argue with direct quotes in the book good point. 

[LinkasZelda]

I also assume that Rock has bonded a spren, and the shardbow is just a manifestation of it. Seeing as that's his primary "weapon" anyway.

Does anybody else feel disappointed that he was the one to kill Amaram tho? There was some sweet poetic justice in Kaladins fight with Amaram and I was REALLY hoping he would get to be the one to kill him. Yeah Rock protected him, and yeah we got more reinforcement of "Kaladin is not alone" but I feel that was presented clearly enough when Dalinar saved the team in Shadesmar, after Kaladin failed to speak the words. Taking away his ability to be the one and kill Amaram was frustrating.

[StormingTexan]

1 hour ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

 

I think passages linking Rock to unusual strength, were just Sanderson red-herrings.. He kept leading us to believe that being strong was natural for a Horneater. He showed us feats of strength(like picking up a giant rock) not possible by "normal" folk, but they weren't "impossible" feats...Horneaters may be unusually strong compared to other Rosharns, but I find it hard to believe that Horneaters are so strong that they can accurately use a weapon that is designed for, and has only ever been used by, someone wearing magical(likely spren-aided) armor. If the answer is "Horneaters are just really strong", I'm probably going to be disappointed.

I agree I think Horneaters are probably just a little stronger than the pure human. A lot is probably due to their size. Not enough to pull a shardbow and if stormlight does not grant you great strength as has been suggested by Kaladin.

I like the idea of Rock being a different KR order. What if he is a Stoneward and is using tension. I really do not fully understand tension except that is alters the stiffness of an object. Could this have been used to make it easier to draw? I think it would also be interesting character development for him to become a Stoneward as it seems like they were one of the orders more involved with fighting. Oh and his nickname is Rock foreshadow much Brandon? 

[stonedshaman]

About rocks strength, let' not forget that he lifted a giant log and swung it at kal with ease while kal was training to use stormlight in the chasms.  Now here's my to spheres:  with rock being able to see spren wether or not they want to be seen lends me to believethat his tie to the spren will result in hearing the screams if rock were to lift one of his newly one shardblades.  Let' not forget that in killing Amaram rock has won 2 blades and likely a set of plate if Amarams transformation didn't completely destroy said plate

[Calyx]

47 minutes ago, LinkasZelda said:

I also assume that Rock has bonded a spren, and the shardbow is just a manifestation of it. Seeing as that's his primary "weapon" anyway.

Does anybody else feel disappointed that he was the one to kill Amaram tho? There was some sweet poetic justice in Kaladins fight with Amaram and I was REALLY hoping he would get to be the one to kill him. Yeah Rock protected him, and yeah we got more reinforcement of "Kaladin is not alone" but I feel that was presented clearly enough when Dalinar saved the team in Shadesmar, after Kaladin failed to speak the words. Taking away his ability to be the one and kill Amaram was frustrating.

Honestly, I'm glad Kaladin didn't kill Amaram. I feel like that would have been a step towards vengeance, which I really wouldn't like to see Kaladin taking. On the other hand, Amaram definitely deserved to die, so its good that someone killed him. Personally I was hoping it would be Adolin.

[StormingTexan]

5 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

About rocks strength, let' not forget that he lifted a giant log and swung it at kal with ease while kal was training to use stormlight in the chasms.  Now here's my to spheres:  with rock being able to see spren wether or not they want to be seen lends me to believethat his tie to the spren will result in hearing the screams if rock were to lift one of his newly one shardblades.  Let' not forget that in killing Amaram rock has won 2 blades and likely a set of plate if Amarams transformation didn't completely destroy said plate

He did give Oathbringer to Dalinar but I wonder what he does with the plate and other blade. 

[ThurgreatMarshall]

4 hours ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

So about Nuatoma's..We know they're clan leaders and that there is at least 1 per peak. I think that their is one per peak..One dominant clan, that is. And that is Rock's family. So here's the confusing stuff(for me anyways):

1st and 2nd sons= food providers

3rd Son= Craftman

4th son and on= Soldiers

[snip]

I'm not sure how much of that we can take as fact. Rock is definitely hiding things, so to me, he's our most unreliable narrator (outside of the Interlude characters). We know what he's told Kaladin and the Bridge 4 crew, but there's really nothing to back it up at this point.

Quote

 

• It's (likely)home to Cultivation's perpendicularity which is likely under assault by an UnMade, given the information we get in Shademar about it being a no-go zone, and this from Rock's wife

  Sounds to me like there be an UnMade up in thar peaks

Moelach is confirmed to be up in the Peaks, right? I think it's not a likely anymore, but confirmed by Mr. T.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Beltway2A

[NotBurtReynolds]

I’m not taking it as fact but I’ve got to make some assumptions if I want think about Rocks future..and I think the sons proffessions are a decent bet to be right. Horneaters aren’t a secret society, so I feel like some basic knowledge about their hierarchies are known and thereby silly to lie about.

[Guest Edonidd]

I had 2-3 thoughts about Rock.

 

#1. Like some other characters, I think he is a minor character in the first 5 books, but will have a much larger role in the next 5 books.  In fact i think Kaladin will stay leader of the Windrunners, while Rock/Lunamor could actually become sort of but not exactly a new Herald.  (At first I thought it would be Kaladin who became the new herald, and i kind of go back and forth)

#2.  I think it has been shown that Syl is very special amongst Honor spren, but definitely not in charge.  I think it' been heavily implied that her Aunt, or however the relationhip works, is probably the head honor spren in charge.  Possibly even a piece of honor like the Stormfather.  Possibly also a god-spren or at least somehow 'more' than "just" an honor spren.  I also think that is the spren woman that Rock saw on the plateaus.  "The most important god there" as Rock called her.  And while young, impetuous Syl might see him as too respectful; I'm sure an older, more dignified spren noble might appreciate it more.  In short I think Rock bonds with the Honor Spren Queen.  Possibly with restrictions on wielding her like the Stormfather imposes.  In which case he might get an Honorblade.

#3.  I think Rock unites the Horneaters, gains a bunch of his own squires from amongst them, and gets a huge support staff that may all come bolster Urithuru.  And while I think Rock is kind of Unique even amongst Horneaters, we do know his wife is also good with a bow, that there are others who can see spren like him, and we believe others who are large like him.  All 3 could be useful to the KR going forward.  I agree that there should be a HUGE Horneater/Rock/Peaks info dump coming very soon.