echaozh Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 We already know that there are at least 4 types of cognitive shadows that are left behind by human-level creatures: 1. Shades on Threnody, 2. Fused souls, 3. Svrakiss, 4. Kelsier. Now, the description of Svrakiss from Coppermind: Quote The Svrakiss are the souls of men barred from entrance into heaven for hating Jaddeth in life,[1] and so are condemned to wander Sel, bitterly cursing their fate and preying on the living.[2] The Derethi believe that they had the ability to take over the bodies of living men and control their actions.[1] sounds quite familiar after reading Oathbringer. They both hate, they don't go to the Beyond, they curse a lot, and they prey on the living. People have speculated if Svrakiss are what's behind the Set's Faceless Immortals, and now we have another option which is almost identical. Knowing that they are both from planets which Odium set foot upon makes me ponder. Also, Threnody was associated with Ambition, who was also splintered by, well, Odium. Below is the description of the Evil: Quote the Evil consumed the entire continent of mankind, according to legend it feasted on the souls of the humans that lived there. Odium feasted on the guilt of the humans, which is what keeps most people on the right track, making right choices, doing right things. With Odium to blame for any crime passionnel, a man can be considered soulless, and the rest of the humankind did the right thing to flee them. My theory is, all these 3 types of cognitive shadows are created by Odium. He may not have invested on Sel to keep the Svrakiss from going to the Beyond, but there is enough investiture in the Cognitive Realm to do it. Odium may have used the investiture he tore from Ambition to create the shades. And we know about the Fused already. Odium is like a master Necromancer, leaving behind an army of undead everywhere he goes. And he will not hesitate to use the army when there's the chance. And that's perhaps what Hoid is working against, to release the cognitive shadows? After all, they're basically the only people he can beat and hurt without breaking his oaths. And he even danced with some of them, and he may have wished them a peaceful rest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 It's possible I suppose but the Heralds and the Returned are also cognitive shadows and both noticeably NOT of Odium. Now that doesnt mean the other 3 types you mentioned aren't only that there are other possibilities. We also know next to nothing about Svrakiss. Everything we know about them is from a biased in world source. Much how Vorinism on Roshar teaches that the Dawnsingers were "kindly Spren" when they were in fact the Parsh People, the Svrakiss could be almost anything, even something good, that the Derethi have villainized. That said it is an interesting connection that the worlds Odium has visited could have something in common even though he has left. I wonder if there are any other connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 It's possible that Odium caused the creation of Svrakiss. However, as none of his power was left on Sel, that means that he somehow set up another process to do so, which has continued to work without his power to guide it. Personally, I don't think this is something he would care too much about, so I don't think he created them. WoB on Odium leaving none of his power behind on Sel. Spoilered for size. Spoiler Quote SUFFICIENTLYADVANCED It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why? BRANDON SANDERSON () It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel. PHANTINE Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though. BRANDON SANDERSON Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless... WINDRUNNER17 This is an awesome answer! If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered? Thanks! BRANDON SANDERSON No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous. It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial. [Source] Regarding shades, I think that Odium is in part responsible for their existence, but once again, not because of his power being present. My opinion is that the development of cognitive shadows of some form is a phenomenon present on Threnody somewhat naturally, and that Ambition's investiture, strewn during their fight, acted upon this phenomenon and caused the formation of shades specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 As Spool already said, many of the Odium's crimes' locations are places where there is a surplus of free Investiture. This is One of the main requirements for the Cognitive Shadows' birth. But It's not something Odium made of stuff like that. Remember also that the Evil (whatever It is) is something incredible recent, while the fight with Ambition is thousands of years old. There could be a connection but It's not too direct, much more as the Evil happens while Odium is trapped on Roshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts