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[OB] The Purpose of the Ghostbloods


Heretic

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As much as I love Oathbringer, I was a little disappointed that we didn’t find out a lot of new information about the Ghostbloods. They seem to be opposed to the Sons of Honor who wanted to bring back the Desolation, yet they tried to kill Jasnah, who was, obviously, opposed to the idea of Rosharan Armageddon. If I remember correctly, they don’t think very highly of Taravangian and the Diagram and sort of brush them off as insignificant. They’re aware of the Skybreakers but Mraize’s note seemed ambivalent about them. They’re also not guided by any real morals that I can see, so it’s doubtful they’re motivated by a “for the greater good” ideology. I think it’s fair to say that their interests extend beyond Roshar but that’s about it. So what could they possibly be after?

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9 minutes ago, Jaaxter said:

a worldhopper from Scadrial is pretty high up in their ranks

Iyatil is not from Scadrial.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/107-orem-signing-2014/#e1394

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Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

Is [Mraize] a worldhopper?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, he's been to a few planets, highly supervised by his babsk.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

So what planet is she from?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, that's kind of a hard thing to say. She has 3 planets she's "from". For example, she's living now on Roshar, but then she's from a different planet, but that's not a planet that her people are from.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

So there was a mass exodus to that planet?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not exactly. If you were to find a Japanese American, where would they say that they are from? Her people did not have a mass exodus.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

Have we seen mass exoduses before?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there are some in the cosmere. There's a mass exodus that is mentioned in one of the interludes in [Words of Radiance].

I wonder if there is a connection to something that was in fact revealed in the latest books - that there are rules the shards were supposed to abide by regarding not being present on worlds with other shards. I wonder if perhaps given they spend such an effort intelligence gathering and seemingly playing all sides they may have some role in regulating or observing said rules. The 17th shard seem to have some kind of non-interference agenda, and lyatil was once a member of that organisation.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171-oathbringer-release-party/#e8134

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Ace0003 [PENDING REVIEW]

[Can you write] something interesting about the Seventeeth Shard? ...Or how about this, a character that's in the Seventeenth Shard that we don't know about?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*spoken* ...I can do that--

*written* So... Iyatil was once in the 17th Shard...

Complete supposition here of course because there really isn't much to go on.

 

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, or no. With all of the cosmere books that have been put out, do we have enough information to deduce the Ghostbloods' motives?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Ummm... *laugher* I would say yes, but it's not like you are a fool if you haven't gotten it.

I found this to be quite interesting, guess we'll see what we can figure out in the next few years.

My guess is that they want information primarily, power secondarily. And possibly helping worlds survive not exactly as a goal but as something which they do if it doesn't inconvenience them too much. Not out of the goodness of their hearts, but simply because for every world that gets destroyed their potential power and playground gets smaller.

Much of this is a shot in the dark when putting what we see of them in SA together with this WoB.

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ccstat

If Kelsier (when Vin knew him) were to join one of the Rosharan secret societies, which one would he choose?

Brandon Sanderson

He would become part of the Ghostbloods, most likely, and would be in charge of them within a year.

 

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I am curious if the Ghostbloods have anything to do with Autonomy. Mraize seems to have artifacts from Autonomy-controlled worlds (sand from Taldain, which is supposedly a very difficult place for worldhoppers to access, and also an Aviar from First of the Sun). If Autonomy were to pay attention to Roshar, she likely would want it to be a perpetual stalemate (I assume); this explains the Ghostbloods seeming cross purposes, and why they are willing to occasionally help/hinder but never truly engage.

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Just now, Calyx said:

I am curious if the Ghostbloods have anything to do with Autonomy. Mraize seems to have artifacts from Autonomy-controlled worlds (sand from Taldain, which is supposedly a very difficult place for worldhoppers to access, and also an Aviar from First of the Sun).

I’ve heard people say that his bird is an Aviar but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything to suggest that it is. Granted if someone were to have one, it’s probably Mraize. Personally I think it’s funnier to just assume it’s a normal run of the mill green chicken

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1 minute ago, Heretic said:

I’ve heard people say that his bird is an Aviar but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything to suggest that it is.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8807

Quote

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Mraize's strange chicken Invested? Like the birds of Sixth of the Dusk?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It is an Aviar.

 

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3 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I’ve heard people say that his bird is an Aviar but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything to suggest that it is. Granted if someone were to have one, it’s probably Mraize. Personally I think it’s funnier to just assume it’s a normal run of the mill green chicken

It's been confirmed.

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Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

wob obrp au.jpg

JoyBlue [PENDING REVIEW]

*written* What Aviar power does Mraize's green chicken grant?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*written* RAFO!

*spoken* But it is an Aviar, so it does have one.

EDIT: Darn! Beaten to it. :(

Edited by Mondaysjelly
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1 minute ago, Heretic said:

I don’t think I’ve ever been corrected that quickly in my life! Although I am sad to see my chicken theory go, the fact that it’s an aviar is way more interesting 

The Arcanum has greatly accelerated our capacity to rapidly destroy the hopes and dreams of sharders expressed in their theories ;).

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16 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:
Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, or no. With all of the cosmere books that have been put out, do we have enough information to deduce the Ghostbloods' motives?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Ummm... *laugher* I would say yes, but it's not like you are a fool if you haven't gotten it.

I found this to be quite interesting, guess we'll see what we can figure out in the next few years.

This is very interesting, during the chapter pre-release, I was speculating on the Tor.com forums that Mraize is an Anti-Hoid. Shallan when she first sees him in the Basement of a Basement bunker in Sebarial's war camp mistakes him for Hoid, he's like the version of Hoid that came out of the Black Lodge.

We have seem him, like Hoid, gathering quite a few items of Investiture, and I think that these lines from Chapter 22, the Darkness Within are very telling about the Ghostbloods' purpose:

Quote

"Morality is an axis that doesn't interest us," Mraize said calmly. "Only loyalty and power are relevant, for morality is as ephemeral as the changing weather. It depends upon the angle from which you view it. You will see, as you work with us, that I am right."

and then later he says:

"Your task," Mraize said, "is to secure this location. Urithiru must remain strong if we are to properly use the advent of the Voidbringers."

"Use them?"

"Yes," Mraize said. "This is a power we will control, but we must not let either side gain dominance yet..."

I think that the Ghostbloods might be trying to resuscitate the shard Ambition, the bolded portions of both quotes above I think emphasize this, or they are trying for the grander prize, like Hoid, to refashion a new God shard.

Interesting to speculate about for sure.

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The idea of Mraize being the “anti-Hoid” is a really cool idea. Although I feel like it wouldn’t be Mraize but maybe the Ghostbloods as whole because I feel like Hoid has always been a “I’ll do it on my own” type of person whereas the Ghostbloods are an entire organization 

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3 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This is very interesting, during the chapter pre-release, I was speculating on the Tor.com forums that Mraize is an Anti-Hoid. Shallan when she first sees him in the Basement of a Basement bunker in Sebarial's war camp mistakes him for Hoid, he's like the version of Hoid that came out of the Black Lodge.

We have seem him, like Hoid, gathering quite a few items of Investiture, and I think that these lines from Chapter 22, the Darkness Within are very telling about the Ghostbloods' purpose:

I think that the Ghostbloods might be trying to resuscitate the shard Ambition, the bolded portions of both quotes above I think emphasize this, or they are trying for the grander prize, like Hoid, to refashion a new God shard.

Interesting to speculate about for sure.

My take on that last bit you put in bold stuck me as very ominous when I read it for the first time. "we must not let either side gain dominance yet" almost like they're preparing the landscape for something. Something bad, possibly worse than Odium as he's on one of the sides Mraize mentions. Only thing that makes me doubt it is the apparent odd coincidence of Odium's vessels name Rayse being similar to Mraize. Prepping the world with what they perceive as ideal conditions for some bigger baddie could be their motive. Collecting investiture to research the cosmere's various "defenses". 

 Game of Thrones Dance with Dragons spoiler? 

Spoiler

The either side not gaining dominance and the creating mayhem reminds of Vayrs killing Kevan Lannister to insure Cersei causes as much chaos as possible before Aegon arrives. Varys creating the stage for his ruler to come in and be the hero/conqueror.

 Mraize and the Ghostbloods good be doing the same thing, just on a larger scale that encompasses multiple planets in the cosmere. 

 

Just my personal vibe on the context. 

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  • 7 months later...

I don't know what I think about all these theories, but I don't think that the ghostbloods are bad guys. For one, they seem to be asking shallan only to do things that team radiant would want to happen anyway (besides recruiting an unmade for them) and if kelsier would join them, their goals can't be to  nefarious, can they? 

I definitely agree that they wouldn't get along with Hoid, though. He really needs to get some better allies.

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16 minutes ago, Sunbringer said:

and if kelsier would join them, their goals can't be to  nefarious, can they? 

Uh... Are you talking about the same Kelsier that I know? 

That dude has some serious issues, and could be the villain super easily. 

I love him to death, but if he appeared as he was in Era 1 in Era 2, he'd have been much closer to being Miles than to being a hero. 

Edited by Calderis
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I just hope that the Ghostbloods won´t go the Diagram and Amaram route of joining Odium down the line. I like to have an unpredictable third party playing both sides. I would guess that their purpose is power in some form, be it through gathering investiture from different planets, getting their own Shard, etc. Then of course, there might be a deeper reason for them to exist. They might need the power to accomplish some kind of goal. And as to that goal, we have no clue.

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5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I just hope that the Ghostbloods won´t go the Diagram and Amaram route of joining Odium down the line. I like to have an unpredictable third party playing both sides. I would guess that their purpose is power in some form, be it through gathering investiture from different planets, getting their own Shard, etc. Then of course, there might be a deeper reason for them to exist. They might need the power to accomplish some kind of goal. And as to that goal, we have no clue.

Sja-Anat + Deadeyes + Ghostblood = Non-Oathbounded Radiant aka Renarin equivalant(?)

Edited by ScavellTane
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  • 2 months later...
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